Drivers agreement.

BBKing · 16 Sep 2001, 15:31 (Ref:147006)

Schumacher claimed the drivers reached the agreement to avoid attempts of overtaking in the chicanes during the first lap. He mentioned only one driver refused to the it and he said “ I don’t want to reveal who he is but he is pretty small”. Bad sense of ironi in my opinion.

During the start little bro just edged ahead of Schumacher at the first corner, MS cut the corner and got back in front. After that he let little bro by to avoid an stop and go but quickly went back on the charge overtaking his brother not before a close battle. All of that in the first lap. Did he forget about the agreement?

Gerard · 16 Sep 2001, 18:56 (Ref:147073)

It wasn't just 'the small driver' who didn't agree, there were several more.
And it weren't only the drivers who disagreed, there was discord between various teams also.

In order to avoid a dangerous situation (drivers who stayed behind each other and others who were trying to overtake, in other words a substantial difference in speed ) it was decided to start the race as usual.

fastracer · 16 Sep 2001, 20:00 (Ref:147104)

According to Speedvision the drivers who did not agree to not pass were Villeneuve, Bernoldi, and Button.
Now to criticize MS for passing is wrong because other drivers passed also and they agreed not to pass, but the deal was not made so they went ahead and passed. Simple as that.

jiggly_puff · 16 Sep 2001, 20:11 (Ref:147116)

i think this is sooooo dumb......i mean sure they are trying to stop another accident like last year, but they can't do that every year just incase there might be an accident!!!! they are there to race and they should race, not agree not to pass each other!

fastracer · 16 Sep 2001, 20:23 (Ref:147126)

Quote:

Originally posted by jiggly_puff
i think this is sooooo dumb

After what happened to Zanardi I can understand the driver's fear. Imagine if something happened. How will the drivers have felt if they knew they could have prevented it?
Now I understand that they are payed to race, but the fact that they wanted to be safe doesn't sound like a "soooo dumb" idea.

facco · 16 Sep 2001, 20:24 (Ref:147127)

Quote:

Originally posted by jiggly_puff
i think this is sooooo dumb......i mean sure they are trying to stop another accident like last year, but they can't do that every year just incase there might be an accident!!!! they are there to race and they should race, not agree not to pass each other!

***claps for jiggly_puff***
this GF

nameless · 16 Sep 2001, 20:32 (Ref:147135)

If the drivers felt it was unsafe to overtake at the start, they shouldnt be racing at monza, or not start from that place. simple as that.

Run Free · 16 Sep 2001, 20:56 (Ref:147153)

Quote:

Originally posted by nameless
If the drivers felt it was unsafe to overtake at the start, they shouldnt be racing at monza, or not start from that place. simple as that.

RIGHT. And not only at Monza, because, as Villeneuve said, there are LOTS of tracks where the start is a lot more dangerous than in Monza.

I can understand the weight on the shoulders of all the drivers, because is the same we all feel. But this "agreement" was simply not correct. If you decide to race, you've to race properly, start obviously included.

Maybe TGF didn't want to race at all, but he hadn't the courage to act consequently, and this overtaking-ban-for- the-first-chicane was a total nonsense.

jiggly_puff · 16 Sep 2001, 21:01 (Ref:147159)

Quote:

Originally posted by fastracer

After what happened to Zanardi I can understand the driver's fear. Imagine if something happened. How will the drivers have felt if they knew they could have prevented it?
Now I understand that they are payed to race, but the fact that they wanted to be safe doesn't sound like a "soooo dumb" idea.

What happened to Alex yesterday was terrible, i don't think anybody will deny that and believe me if there was a way of ensuring every driver had an 'accident free career' i would back it.....but these guys know the risks they take everytime they get in the cars and they are there to race. If they feel so strongly about an accident happening then they don't race.

jiggly_puff · 16 Sep 2001, 21:04 (Ref:147161)

Quote:

Originally posted by facco

***claps for jiggly_puff***
this GF

your agreeing with me right????

Wrex · 16 Sep 2001, 21:11 (Ref:147168)

Cool - A Michael bashing thread, we never have these.

Michael was a spokesperson for the drivers. DC was the driving force behind it as he admitted after the race.

Do I agree with it? No. Your paid to race, so race. If there was real concern, why did'nt they start behind the pace car?

facco · 16 Sep 2001, 21:16 (Ref:147171)

Quote:

Originally posted by jiggly_puff

your agreeing with me right????

COMPLETELY... I meant TGF

jiggly_puff · 16 Sep 2001, 21:18 (Ref:147174)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
why did'nt they start behind the pace car?

thats a really good point.......why didn't i think of that!

jiggly_puff · 16 Sep 2001, 21:20 (Ref:147176)

Quote:

Originally posted by facco

COMPLETELY... I meant TGF

THANX!!!!!! nice to know i have some support!

Mania · 16 Sep 2001, 21:38 (Ref:147193)

Villeneuve was the main trouble maker which is nothing new. All he can do since 97 is run his mouth because he certainly cant run his car well enough.

Anyway, it didnt serve him any good. He got passed by 4 cars at the start if I remember correctly.

Its difficult to have a agreement between drivers as it is but my understanding is that this one was a done deal till JV opened his mouth.

jiggly_puff · 16 Sep 2001, 21:42 (Ref:147196)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mania
Its difficult to have a agreement between drivers as it is but my understanding is that this one was a done deal till JV opened his mouth.

i'm glad he did - he is a true racer and the sport needs a few more of them!

**Bononi** · 16 Sep 2001, 22:14 (Ref:147212)

Oh c'mon... could you see the dark clouds through this whole week ?

This feeling of "the witches are on the loose", or "something's not right" ?

I felt this 6 years back, when a certain young driver crashed heavily at Imola, and then in Saturday qualifying another has died, while it was broadcasted live. The same feeling. But no, nobody stopped it.

You know so well what happened.

This week was far far far more tragic than those events in 94... so get the scene; TGF was there in 94, Burti crashed badly the last race, the black tuesday happened, Zanardi's horrific crash at saturday.

Just think about it...

facco · 16 Sep 2001, 22:15 (Ref:147213)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mania

Its difficult to have a agreement between drivers as it is but my understanding is that this one was a done deal till JV opened his mouth.

*coughs loudly*
I dislike to be at JV side, but, he was right... there are several riskier circuits. There were several dangerous movements done this year.
The drivers read and many signed the agreement, and it was sent to the teams and after that, an order from BAR, ARROWS, BENETTON AND WILLIAMS was released. Disagreement to that deal. I've even heard that Biatore said to both Button an Fissi that if they follow that "curve passing ban" will be punished.

Gt_R · 16 Sep 2001, 22:33 (Ref:147223)

"During the start little bro just edged ahead of Schumacher at the first corner, MS cut the corner and got back in front. After that he let little bro by to avoid an stop and go but quickly went back on the charge overtaking his brother not before a close battle. All of that in the first lap. Did he forget about the agreement?"

The agreement was about avoiding overtaking moves at the FIRST 2 chicanes...and watch the race, he overtook AFTER the second chicane, so he didnt forget his side of the agreement.

And DC was also against the idea of overtaking at the start...and surprisingly, i agree with him on this one.

Roy2 · 16 Sep 2001, 23:28 (Ref:147247)

Aw Mania, what's your problem with Villenueve here?

According to you MS has the right to go no show at Indianapolis if he wants to, no matter what Ferrari, Bernie or the other drivers think.

This being so, dosn't JV have the right to say he wants to race into the first corner even if the great Michael wants a parade instead of a race?

If it's true that it was a 'done deal' until Villenueve spoke up then good for Villenueve I say. And good for those other drivers who agreed with him.

The trouble with MS as I see it, is that he says so many self-serving things that one can't always tell that he's not being self-serving. And when one sees him marching so purposefully anywhere, one wonders what sort of bs is about to be uttered this time.

With Villenueve, however, one knows that what he says he means and what he means he says. Apparently he told the great one to take a hike, and so he did, all the way back up the grid.

Sometimes the best man isn't in the best car.

regards,
One of Villenueve's two fans.

Gerard · 17 Sep 2001, 00:38 (Ref:147269)

Make that 3 Roy!

In my opinion, there was no agreement!
Drivers and teams were trying to reach an agreement but they failed.
Therefore, the race was started as ususal.

Valve Bounce · 17 Sep 2001, 00:55 (Ref:147272)

First of all, Zanardi's terrible accident had nothing to do with the start of a race.
Secondly, while I agree that some sort of discipline needs to be exercised at starts to prevent Kamikaze accidents, it is ridiculous to agree not to race for the first few corners if we are going to have a grid start. I think we had a poll here some time back about whether GP's should have a rolling start after a parade lap, and the result was a resounding "NO". However, I find it very difficult to understand MSch's stand on this, after his swerving starts and how he tried to run his own brother into the wall in an effort (successful) to make the latter back off. Would MSch have been in agreement to such a no passing start if his winning the title hasd depended on a successful start at this stage of the competition? I think not - he would have been well ahead of Jacques in condemning such a start. I clearly remember DC suggesting the banning of swerving at starts, and I don't remember MSch supporting DC on this one earlier in teh season. Yes!! I am questioning MSch's motives for this "lets have a peaceful start" suggestion at this stage of the competition after he has already won the WDC this year. I am not bashing the guy, just questioning his motives at this stage of this year's competition, that's all.

drexel · 17 Sep 2001, 05:21 (Ref:147313)

If we can question Michael's motives, can we not question others who disagreed.
Flavio- His Bennetons' are the best starters as we have seen the last two races. I will say he is as much responsible for Button stuffing it up as anyone.
JV- History says it all. Yes you are a true racer JV. I guess you're the only one out there on the track since most drivers were happy to go along with it.
If i was one of the drivers, i would have voted to race as usual, but if a majority of drivers decide to take a worldly view in light of recent events and past history with the chicanes, right or wrong, surely you would respect a majority decision.

Did not JV call for rolling starts to be introduced a short time ago.

tanalised · 17 Sep 2001, 08:00 (Ref:147330)

Maybe Monza should be struck off the F1 circuit if its too dangerous a place to start at (according to DC & TGF)
What a load of ******s! I doubt 2 out of the 22 racers could agree on anything other than the date let alone a pact not to overtake each other for 2 or 3 corners. Theyre not out there to take a parade

fast95pony · 17 Sep 2001, 08:27 (Ref:147334)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerard
Make that 3 Roy!

Make that 4 !!

At least JV doesn't ram his chief rival off the track when a championship is on the line, TWICE !

Alan

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