Franchise dealerships - or - I should have known better.

[TimD]

Some of you may recall that this time last year, I had to miss a race meeting at Mallory Park because a franchised dealership had wrongly fitted a new set of brakes on my car during a routine service. The car was left in a dangerous condition, and there was no way I was going to take the risk of putting it on a motorway on the offchance that they might bed in.

Well, it's that time again. Starbug the Corsa had his service and MOT today, and being a bit pushed for time, I dropped him off at the local dealership again, knowing that there really wasn't going to be a lot needed doing to it.

I should have known better.

The telephone rang about an hour later. Could I please authorise work to be done to get the brakes to MoT standard, please? The alarm bells should have rung at that point. What work precisely?

But I was pushed for time, I had an interview to get to, I also need the car tomorrow.

I should have known better.

When I collected Starbug this afternoon, the Service Manager greeted me with that cheery smile that tells you he's about to sting you for a serious amount of money, and said I was lucky I brought the car in when I did. The front brake discs were knurdled.

I love that word - knurdled.

"Really? They were only done 11,000 miles ago," I said.

"You're joking! They were knackered. So were the pads. What cowboy did that for you, then?"

"Well, er, you did."

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"Wot?"

"Well, this garage did, anyway. And I had to go back and complain about them at the time."

The Victorians used to have an expression, "collapse of stout party" when someone who thinks they know exactly what they're talking about suddenly gets the wind taken out of their sails.....!

Suffice to sa I've now got a complaints procedure on my hands, as I gather the evidence to show that a main dealer left me with potentially unroadworthy brakes for a year, and a replacement cost at a quarter of the discs' natural lifespan.

And on the premise that every young man should have an Italian mistress at some time in his life, I am popping over to the local Emporium of Sin to sample a 1-year-old Alfa Romeo 156 Twinspark in black, which is sitting on their forecourt at what is very nearly the right price.

Better put my haggling hat on.

Anyone else got any garage horror stories they'd like to share? And if anyone knows the finer points of what to look out for on Alfa 156's, I'd be pleased to hear from them.

[JR Ewing]

Yesterday!
Brundle TVR annual service on my Cerbera.
Phone call "sir, both front shock absorbers have worn out and have caused both front springs to soften, tie bar bushes have worn and the front tyres are worn on the inside due to the wrong camber - all in all you're looking at about £2,000"
Hmmm.
"But you replaced all those items for me last summer, since when I've only done 1,500 miles."
Oh, did we? There must some error. I'll call you back"
Still waitin...........

[Chris Y]

I did the unthinkable a short time ago. Like yourself Tim, I went to them because I was pressed for time. I needed the exhaust sorting out. I'd already stripped the thread off one of the bolts doing it myself. I thought I'd take it to a company that must do thousands of exhaust changes every year, so they must know what they're doing, right?

Right?

Wrong. We're talking about the dreaded "Kwik-Fit". A name that strikes terror into the hearts of all mechanics and anyone involved in the motor trade.

My lovely new exhaust was fitted in moments, and 'moments' was the amount of time it took to start rattling almost as badly as the old one. Never again, not even when I'm pressed for time

[woodyracing]

Ahh garages are the thing of nightmares
Theres only a very few that I trust.

Had a banging noise on the exhaust,
Ford main dealers - "Oh by the way you have some bolts missing from your gearbox"
Me - "WHAT! but you refitted my gearbox a few weeks ago"
Ford - "Oh did we"
later...
more senior mechanic - "oh the bolts are fine, there are holes for other models of car" (DOH!!)

Other times they diagnosed faulty brakes, when they are uprated and in good condition.
Ford and other garages have accused my clutch as being faulty, when this is also uprated and ok. Someone said it didnt feel like it was "picking up" properly (err thats because the powerband has moved up the revs).

And hows this for a misdiagnosis, my car was dead, and an old mechanic I know said "Its the CAT, smell that.. thats ya CAT" - it turned out to be an electrical fault.

Back street garages are even worse, had an XR3i a long time ago and needed new brakes. ended up with a new caliper and one very rough engine (they had loosened the spark plugs!!)

More recently had a minor dent removed from the door, and the steering hasn't felt the same since that garage had it

[Bluebottle]

There's only one chap I trust with our cars- his garage is in a back street but he is a very straight-up honest chap and is quite happy for us to supply parts if he thinks we can get them cheaper and quicker than him! He also knows an MOT station which seems to be happy dealing with old cars wthout nit-picking! Last year, the MOT place he sent my Dutton to failed it because of rust on the underside of the drivers door- (An Escort door with a fibreglass skin!) Our man told the MOT man he was being silly, refused to pay him and took the car somewhere else. (Don't worry, it's not in a dangerous condition!)

I have also had bad experiences with that well-known exhaust/tyre chain- 2 days to fit a radiator. an exhaust with a hole etc etc!!

[Maisie]

Thought all of you who've been hard done by by garages might appreciate this gem I just found on the BBC's news website:

If you have ever wondered what happens to your car when you take it to a garage, then a text message might just be able to help.

In-car tracking systems are usually intended to keep tabs on stolen cars, but the technology can have additional benefits, as one Manchester man recently found out.

The man, known only as Mr G, purchased a global positioning satellite system called TrakM8 from Dorset firm Interactive Projects.

TrakM8 can be set to send an SMS text message to a mobile phone for a variety of purposes such as if the driver has broken down or is in other difficulties.

It also has a feature that alerts the driver via SMS when the car is going above the speed limit.

This feature proved revealing when Mr G took his car in for a routine service.

When the car should have been in the garage, he received a series of SMS messages telling him that his BMW was actually speeding through the streets of Manchester.

"Someone was obviously driving it with some welly and I wasn't too happy as it was a new car," said Mr G.

"I called the garage with some pretty angry messages and the service manager couldn't believe it and nearly died of embarrassment," he explained.

"The really funny thing was that he had fitted the system two days earlier,"

This added benefit of the TrakM8 system could prove useful for people keen to keep an eye on their mechanic's use of their car, said Karen Knapton of Interactive Projects.

"We would have loved to see the service manager's face when he was shown the action replay of the abused car," she said.

"It must have been one of those satisfying moments.

"We all know this kind of thing happens but it's great to be able to prove it," she said.

Muhahahaha

[Lorna]

I like that story!

I have been in a dilemma because I had a 3 year warranty chucked in with my car when I bought it but SL has told me some scarey stories which means I can't face taking my car to a Nissan garage to keep the warranty in tact. I am therefore going to my usual garage that looked after my Rover. It's a Unit on a very tiny industrial estate hidden away from the rest of the world. They write in their appointments in a paper diary that has oily finger prints all over it and don't hesitate to say when you pick the car up "keep an eye on your brakes/tyres, etc, you'll get another 2 months out of them before they need changing". I'll be booking my car in there this week

Tim, if you want the details for future reference, they are in Bletchley and not a million miles away from you.

[Carrie]

Just thought I'd pull this topic back up the the top after putting my car in for an oil change yesterday.
I was out when the garage phoned to say that there was an oil leak and it was going to cost an additional £79 on top of the cost of the oil change to repair. I phoned them back because it wasn't clear if that prive was inclusive or exclusive of VAT. I was then told that the cost was £43 which included the oil change.
At this point my dad decided he was going to be the one who collected the car because he was all geared up for an argument over price. I've encountered the girl who gave the first price before and always her prices are more expensive than those quoted by the men who are on the service desk.
So, in he goes and he's served by the girl who says it's £79 - total cost, not plus the cost of oil change as she'd quoted previously. He then asked to speak to the guy I'd spoken to, turned out he was on the next desk with another customer. So, my dad waited to speak to him and the girl went through to the back. She then returned with the manager who apologised for the mistake, the car is still under warranty, all there is to pay is the cost of the oil change!

[Bluebottle]

[Amaroo Park]

I have spent the greater part of my working life working in Service Departments of major dealerships. Not only would I never take a car into one I would urge everyone out there to not use them for anything but warranty repairs. The standard of Technicans is much better in an Independant than it is in any Dealership.

[Carrie]

I agree with you on that, but unfortunately, the dealers have got you over a barrel if you want to keep the warranty intact on your car. As I hadn't taken my last car to the main dealer, they used that as a way to say that the warranty was invalid

[kmchow]

What exactly do you mean by "much better"? I've always been under the impression that dealerships are more expensive b/c they are better trained. HOWEVER, after diagnosing the problems, they usually suggest the easier/simpler, BUT MORE EXPENSIVE solution and fix? OTOH, some dealerships push for unnecessary work b/c they may get bonuses from the manufacturer? Ditto for franchise repair shops? American franchised repair shops are synonomous and are well known for pushing unncessary work b/c they get bonuses for replacing X amounts of parts every month/period?

My personal experience with my dealer is that they are 80% good (they may tell you to squeeze a few more months of the brake for example) and 20% (bad)--they do sometimes go for the most expensive solution.

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by kmchow
What exactly do you mean by "much better"? I've always been under the impression that dealerships are more expensive b/c they are better trained.

I mean every technican I hired that was trained in a Independant garage was more skilled, honest adn hard working than any I hired or trained from dealerships.

[garcon]

A good friend of mine made the jump from self-employed honest(ish) hard working (very) independent to a job at a dealership, simply so he had enough money in his pocket to look after his family AND see them occasionally.

He's now a dealership service manager, but was initially totally gob-smacked at the dealer service culture. NONE of the staff could reasonably be called a mechanic. They were fitters. If something's broke, they take it off and replace it (and replace anything else that might feasibly be related - good imagination helps). Nothing is ever actually diagnosed properly or 'mended'.

The problem is they have us over a barrel - your car's warranty and used value can be seriously impaired unless your service book is stamped by a franchised dealer.

Hopefully, with new EC regulations next year meaning dealers can have multiple franchises - i.e. you can potentially buy/service any make of car at any given dealer, the rip-off will be reduced.

My Merc has 'a full Mercedes Benz Dealer service history'. But while I've had it, all the dealer has done is straightforward servicing. Any work I know needs doing I get done by someone who knows what they're doing. And if at service the dealer phones and says it needs this and that, I tell them I'll get that checked out myself, thankyou very much.

That way, I keep my FSH, and get the work done properly for half the price.

[er, rant mode off]

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by garcon
A good friend of mine made the jump from self-employed honest(ish) hard working (very) independent to a job at a dealership, simply so he had enough money in his pocket to look after his family AND see them occasionally.

He's now a dealership service manager, but was initially totally gob-smacked at the dealer service culture. NONE of the staff could reasonably be called a mechanic. They were fitters. If something's broke, they take it off and replace it (and replace anything else that might feasibly be related - good imagination helps). Nothing is ever actually diagnosed properly or 'mended'.

That is it all the good dealership mechanics get promoted off the floor into Workshop Manager, Service Advisor/Manager roles and all you are left with is the dreggs.

[Amaroo Park]

Don't forget as well that Service Deptartments in Dealerships are where the money is made in them. It is the service Dept that keeps the Dealership in good financial shape. So the Service dept MUST upsell to the enth degree to keep the Dept and Dealership profitable. I say this having worked for Australia's biggest private Dealer group for a number of years

[DAVID PATERSON]

Bondy, you say to steer clear of the dealer's service centres and go to an independent.

When you say independent, do you mean large national chains, that are independent of manufacturers or do you mean privately owned single garages?

[Carrie]

Oh, yikes, large national chains. Now they can be even worse than the dealerships. My uncle put his car into one of them for a quick oil change one - the garage decided the car needed major gearbox work and other things. Final bill, £720 which he very begrudingly paid because there was far too much hassle involved with going to court. Some time later, that garage chain appeared on the Garages from Hell programme

[Morris 1100]

You want to take you car to somebody that gets their customers by word of mouth and not glossy advertising, so avoid dealers and national/international chains.

The little guy gets his new customers from his workmanship.

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
Bondy, you say to steer clear of the dealer's service centres and go to an independent.

When you say independent, do you mean large national chains, that are independent of manufacturers or do you mean privately owned single garages?

The large Independant chains and the like are just as bad as Dealerships in some cases worse.

A lot of single independants that are not attached to a service station must do really good work. They only have one sorce of income coming in. So they need to do excellent work so you will come back and tell you friends.

There is much more variety in the work they carry out on cars like doing engine rebuilds and the like. For example in a dealership there is no engine rebuilds done they are just replaced under warranty. So Dealership mechanics in the most part are glorified parts fitters. There is very little in diagnosis work carried out with out a computer there telling them what is wrong.

The amount of Techs that used to get me to take them for drives cause they could not hear a rattle or a wheel bearing noise was incredable. The noises where mostly there, they just had no idea what they where listening too.

David just so you know what I mean. When I was running the workshop of a major dealership. I gave a qualified tech the job of putting strut inserts in a VN Commodore. The guy was taking a long time but I sort of kept on eye on him from my office. I noticed he had the struts out and thought ok he will come over soon and ask me for the spring compressors.
Anyway I was doing something else and the next thing I heard was a rattle gun working then a huge crash and the sound of breaking glass. He had undone the strut top without compressing the spring. The strut top and the spring flew off going throught the roof of the work shop and throwing him off the bench where he was standing and onto the bonnet of the car he was working. About 10 minutes later some blokes doing road work on the next street brought the spring back into us as it had just missed them by centermetres.

[kmchow]

OTOH, I guess small one off independents have to be more honest b/c they hopefully rely on repeat customers? I wonder if the quality of technicians and level of dishonest shops/dealer/chains really vary between countries? We seem to have had response from Canada, Aus and UK?

[woodyracing]

Originally posted by colinbond

He had undone the strut top without compressing the spring. The strut top and the spring flew off going throught the roof of the work shop and throwing him off the bench where he was standing and onto the bonnet of the car he was working. About 10 minutes later some blokes doing road work on the next street brought the spring back into us as it had just missed them by centermetres.

lol thats funny!
i didnt know struts would do that!

[DAVID PATERSON]

I guess garages are like builders then, the very worst are small independant sole traders and so are the very best.

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
I guess garages are like builders then, the very worst are small independant sole traders and so are the very best.

Exactly, Moral is find an independant you trust and keep using them.