Engines for smaller teams

[Edmonton]

Here is just something I thought of. For the smaller teams like Jordan and Minardi how about letting them run a 3.5litre engine?

[Adam43]

or why not introduce success ballast.

I don't think it is what F1 is about. The rules are the same for everyone. Although with the new third driver rule then maybe not quite.

Also who would develop the new 3.5 litre engines? If they got involved with a manufacurer then that would be the opposite to the reasoning why they were allowed this 500cc break. If no manufacturer was involved then I guess that the 3.5 litre engine would be no better than the 3.0 works engines.

On a technical point I don't think it is just a case of increasing the capacity of an existing F1 unit anymore. The engines are too specialised. They are designed and packaged around a 3l capacity.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Edmonton
Here is just something I thought of. For the smaller teams like Jordan and Minardi how about letting them run a 3.5litre engine?

They are smaller teams because they have no money, they have customer engines, not works deals. How are they going to afford 3.5L engines, when all they can afford are season old 3.0L engines?

[esorniloc]

Perhapps there could be a championship for non-works teams?

A bit like the non-turbo championships in 1987?

[DriverT]

Or give the smaller teams the old turbo engines...

[esorniloc]

Originally posted by DriverT
Or give the smaller teams the old turbo engines...

Wouldn't that increase the costs for the teams who have the least money?

[DriverT]

Not if you give them for free...

[Wrex]

Well if you can find someone giving them away, grab me one

[GTRMagic]

Get the manufacturers to agree in the Concorde agreement (will it now be called the Airbus now that this bird is now dodo like? ) to supply engines to 2 teams at X dollars for X specification....

Ferrari does it, Cosworth does it... nobody else does it...

To protest the branding of the mother product, fix the name on the engine...
Renault = Nissan
Mercedes = Chrysler
Honda = Acura
Toyota = Landcruiser...

[Gt_R]

Shouldn't there be an agreement with all WORKS engine manufacturers to provide engines for a small team without choice if the situation arises? Something similar to the tyre-supply, that unless they have already supplied a 2nd team, they CANNOT reject demands for its engine.

[GTRMagic]

Sounds like a good plan to me Gt_R...

The old evolution engines would go to waste anyway, so why not used them as a relatively cheap, commercially attractive branding exercise?

[Snrub]

Rather than having handicaps, change the regulations to handicap areas of possible improvement for everyone so that spending $300M more than another team produces marginal results. Let the drivers win the races.

[Phoenix1]

Small teams should sort themselves out and stop complaining then they can buy the engines. Williams started with virtually nothing even in resent times they had to put up with Mecachrome engines but they got through it. Jordan has proved they can get there with HHF. Minardi even put a car into a top slot in qualifying in Phoenix. (was it second in 1989??) I support Minardi but you can't help wondering what is keeping them down all these years.

Was it Bernie or Ron etc.. who said about F1 NOT being a charity. This is a sport and a race to win and like it or not a race is often won before a wheel turns. Just like going to war so often preperation is key be it mentally, physcially or financially.

[DriverT]

Sure, I agree, it isn't a charity. But the problem is, these small teams find large amounts of money very difficult to come by so it's difficult for them to sort themselves out. And the longer you continue, the more difficult it is to find sponsorship.

[esorniloc]

Perhapps there could be a 2-class F1, with the top teams running there own equipment and a 2nd class with spec tyres and engines running in a 2nd class championship. It would give the lower teams something to really fight for and give them cheaper spec stuff??????????

[Snrub]

While Jordan was able to do well for a limited time period they are unable to sustain it. It is not difficult to see that reliability played heavily on Jordan's success. During Williams' lack luster years, they still had a massive amount of money for their cars.

This is beside the point. The performance gap between McLaren and Williams/Ferrari made things less interesting. We saw less competition as a result. All these teams have an obscene amount of money and it didn't make the racing any better.

I don't want to see Engineers compete. If I want to do that, I'll turn my chair away from the computer and watch my coworkers. I want to see drivers RACE. I would have thought 2003 would have made this abundantly clear to everyone. If you want to see applied math open a text book. If you want to watch sport let the drivers win it.

[Spudgun]

The thing that worries me about next year for the smaller teams is the one engine per race weekend rule.

The front-runners are happily developing engines a bit more beefed up to cope with the extra mileage, but the teams that use customer engines will be getting year old (maybe more) equipment.

Not only are they going to be less powerful in many cases they are also going to have to run further than they were intially designed to do.

I can see a lot of customer teams being parked on the verge next year and I wonder if the FIA has considered this.

[DriverT]

Yeah and also on the verge of collapse.

[ss_collins]

bring back privateer teams, let - private teams buy old manufacturer chassis, imagine minardi / sauber with F2002's and Jordan with Macca's.

Also rich individual like klass zwart could enter old cars.

[Spudgun]

Well it's good to see that Jaguar and Ferrari have decided to give Jordan and Sauber respectively, current spec engines due to the 2004 regulations.

Without that they would have been severly disadvantaged. The only concern is which engines Minardi are going to get.

[Logrence]

Why are people so obsessed with giving people who clearly aren't good enough an artificial leg up?

Isn't motorsport about promoting fair competition - isn't that what's exciting? Or is a manufactured result what you want to see?

How can people expect teams like Ferrari, McLaren or Williams to continue in an atmosphere like that?

[Snrub]

Motorsports should be about competition between drivers. Competition between Ferrari, McLaren, Williams is very boaring and they are big @ssholes. I don't like them and they should be brought down a peg.

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by Logrence
Why are people so obsessed with giving people who clearly aren't good enough an artificial leg up?

Isn't motorsport about promoting fair competition - isn't that what's exciting? Or is a manufactured result what you want to see?

How can people expect teams like Ferrari, McLaren or Williams to continue in an atmosphere like that?

It's nothing to do with not being good enough, it's all about how much cash they've got to spend. Anyway, it's not an artificial leg-up. Don't forget they do have to pay for these engines.

If motorsport (particularly F1) is about promoting fair competition then something has gone wrong somewhere. It started out like that, but in recent years it's become a big corporate showroom.

If it wasn't for the remaining few privateer teams there would only be 14 cars on the grid for 2004. I'd rather see 20.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Snrub
Motorsports should be about competition between drivers. Competition between Ferrari, McLaren, Williams is very boaring and they are big @ssholes. I don't like them and they should be brought down a peg.

:confused: Ferrari do supply a second team, and there is no rule yet, that states that engine manufacturers have to supply a second team. Surely the reason that Mercades and BMW don't supply a second team is down to them, not McLaren or Williams?