TCR International Series

[Go_For_Pole]

I found this in my mailbox, surprised that TcT or autosport.com don't have it yet. Is this for real?!


TC3™ INTERNATIONAL SERIES ANNOUNCED FOR 2015

Introducing a new global Touring Car racing championship – the TC3™ International Series – which has been announced for 2015. The exciting new series aims to restore the ‘Touring Car Pyramid’ concept of cars that can compete at national, regional and international level and will appear in several Formula One™ events.
Not only will the cars look impressive but they will be capable of delivering a strong performance, while development and running costs will be kept under control to make the series affordable for private teams.

The technical principles follow the GT3 philosophy. Performance of the different cars will be regulated through a Performance balance system.
Major car makers have in their range models that may be eligible for competing in this series that is deliberately aimed at creating a strong customer market for the cars while developing a worldwide racing product at the pinnacle of Touring Car racing.

In all, there will be in excess of ten race meetings over four continents. Some of these will be run within F1© events, ensuring a massive global audience and strong media coverage will be exposed to the series in its very first season.
A sister TC3™ Asia Series will be organised as well, that will be sharing some of the events with the International Series.

Stay tuned to hear further details about the TC3™ International Series and its 2015 calendar that will be announced shortly.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Right, so is this the FIA attempting to regulate every form of professional motorsports?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Right, so is this the FIA attempting to regulate every form of professional motorsports?

It's about time something is done. Touring car racing on the continent is dying on the vine...

Also, the idea of applying the GT3 philosophy to touring cars should have been used a long time ago.

[redshoes]

My default position is to be sceptical of anything like this but I think that's well justified in this case.

The sum total of what anyone knows about this is written in the three paragraphs of the press release quoted in the opening post. Who is behind it? What are the technical regs? Website gives zero details. This is just an announcement to say thee will be another announcement in a couple of months.

Forgive me if I don't get too enthusiastic just yet.

[Speed-King]

What are the technical regs?

If they go by the GT3 philosophy there'll be none...

Ideally they'd just take a bunch of existing cars and throw them together under a BoP-formula.

Possible candidates could be:

Seat Leon Supercopa (new)
Opel Astra OPC Race Cup
Peugeot 208 GTi (VLN)
CLA AMG Racing Series (Brazilian 1 make series)
BMW 235i Racing (VLN)

[touring fan01]

Another global series to compete with WTCC.
Madness.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Right, so is this the FIA attempting to regulate every form of professional motorsports?

Its nothing to do with FIA. It's the total opposite. It's for another world series to go against WTCC!

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

If they go by the GT3 philosophy there'll be none...

Ideally they'd just take a bunch of existing cars and throw them together under a BoP-formula.

Even with BoP you still need some sort of framework or target performance to work from. Take the following 3 examples:
750MC Hot Hatch - Saxos, Fiestas and the like
UK VW Cup - Polos, Golfs and Sciroccos
EuroV8/Superstars - Merc C-class, BMW 5-series, Audi RS5, etc

Three very different series for very different types of car but with one thing in common, all use some form of adjustments to balance the relative performance of the grid. They don't all use the term 'BoP' but essentially that's what it is. that works fine within each series but no amount of BoP is ever going to balance a 1.6 Fiesta with a 5-litre AMG Mercedes.

I hope this doesn't turn into another thread full of start endless speculating on what would be the ideal global formula, consider this. If this truly is a ‘Touring Car Pyramid’ with TC1 > TC2 > TC3, then this new formula will sit below the current TC2/S2000 in terms of performance, in which case isn't that already Super1600.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

It's about time something is done. Touring car racing on the continent is dying on the vine...

I agree with your statement, but not necessarily with the creation of a "TC3" class. Hell, they haven't even gotten TC1 stabilized, which could need one or two more manufacturers. Then there's TC2, which is basically S2000...and then you want to create a class below S2000? Wouldn't it be better to let TC2 be a class with downgraded TC1 cars (Production-based engines instead of 1.6l racing engines; less bodywork modifications etc.) and to turn S2000 into TC3?

Also, the idea of applying the GT3 philosophy to touring cars should have been used a long time ago.

Absolutely. GT3 is pretty much the spiritual successor to Group A touring cars anyway, so I never figured out why the same approach hasn't been used for touring cars. Then again, GT3 was a privateer's playground back then, while touring cars were run by manufacturers and we all know that manufacturers don't like any BoP applied to their cars (Like Audi in the 1992 DTM season...).

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

If they go by the GT3 philosophy there'll be none...

Ideally they'd just take a bunch of existing cars and throw them together under a BoP-formula.

Possible candidates could be:

Seat Leon Supercopa (new)
Opel Astra OPC Race Cup
Peugeot 208 GTi (VLN)
CLA AMG Racing Series (Brazilian 1 make series)
BMW 235i Racing (VLN)

I would actually applaud this format, using those single make cars and bopping them would make for a great grid (though the 208 would be the odd one out I guess).

[Rubio]

Errrmm... Isn't that supposed to be a WTCC feeder series (at least one of them) - Ribeiro spoke of a feeder series earlier and the were rumors that 3 classes will be made - WTC with TC1, TC2, and something like TC3..In any case from my point of view being a touringcar ladder series and supporting...Formula 1..is silly. On the other hand, looks like Lotti is trying to build new WTCC from scratch

[Sodemo]

Yet another touring car series? Touring cars (in a global sense) needs 1 or 2 sets of rules, not 10.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

The technical principles follow the GT3 philosophy. Performance of the different cars will be regulated through a Performance balance system.

Well it didn't take long for me to make not to care at all.

Not that the success ballast + power-etc flickering of WTCC or near-spec 'parity' formula of V8 Supercars is close to my heart either but (presumably) non-regs all-BoP class is infinitely lamer, especially if it really takes the route of GT3 and slowly turns into the powerhouse of all touring car racing

[Rubio]

BTW, I believe the concept of returning the concept of "restoring the 'touring car pyramid' concept of cars that can compete at national, regional and international level."" is dead.. Most touring car series opted for their own rules which suit their particular country. The are way too big differences between the countries and it's simply impossible to make one set of rules which will satisfy everyone..WTCC opted for what was better for them - a world championship should have unique championship rules if it wants to be perceived as a world championship, BTCC opted for a cheap ruleset, affordable for privateers, STCC opted for spectacular looking cars and so on.. I don't believe this idea is realistic

As for performance balancing - did we forget what seriously hit WTCC? It will hit this series as well (if it means the system of waivers used in pre-2014 WTCC)

[Speed-King]

STCC opted for spectacular looking cars and so on.

It didn't really work out for them though... the only healthy touring car series in Europe right now are BTCC and to a slightly lesser extent WTCC (still Euro-based) and ETCC.

Touring car racing on a national somewhat professional level on the continent is dead.

As for performance balancing - did we forget what seriously hit WTCC?

Well, there is an example of a very well run BoP-based touring car series: http://www.imsa.com/series/sportscar-challenge

So I guess it is possible that this works out fine. Especially since many smaller European countries are finding that they can't support a full-blown GT3 series either and that spec series make for a poor top of the national pyramid.

Even with BoP you still need some sort of framework or target performance to work from. Take the following 3 examples:
750MC Hot Hatch - Saxos, Fiestas and the like
UK VW Cup - Polos, Golfs and Sciroccos
EuroV8/Superstars - Merc C-class, BMW 5-series, Audi RS5, etc

I'm pretty sure they'd go for turbo-charged engines, somewhere around 2 liters, but with the possibility to deviate from that by 400-500cc. Anything smaller doesn't make for particularily imposing cars, anything bigger and you really start to cut down on the number of potential marques and come into conflicts with the various GT3 series.

[Moneyseeker]

Ex WTCC chief Marcello Lotti is behind it apparently...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114793

AG has spoken on the subject.

Gow added that the FIA would be keen to make sure that TC3 did not impinge on the WTCC.
"We have to look at it to make sure that it doesn't encroach on the rights of the WTCC," said Gow.
"It is a global series that [Lotti] is putting together, it has no affect on anything else other than the WTCC.
"Obviously the FIA will protect its own property so we have to make sure it doesn't step in front of the WTCC.
"But all of this is pure speculation as none of us know the details."

[Sodemo]

I am somewhat ambivalent regarding the btcc' ngtc ruleset. Whilst I can agree it has brought full grids and the series is booming, the cars aren't as cheap as initially stated. I also think that the cars look overweight when cornering, they just don't "look" nimble, lazy in direction change and they roll around a lot. Having said all that, I would support ngtc as a ruleset for international use. All they need to do is up the power to something like 400bhp, which should be quite easy with the turbo rules.

[Mekola]

"TC"3 Series? Does the FIA know what they're doing? "TC" is the stand of "Turismo Carretera" from Argentina since 1937... and is also used as "TC2000" as "Turismo Competición 2000" from 1979... And Oscar AventÃ*n, the headmaster of Argentinian TC is as important as the France family is for NASCAR... Better not embezzle with them...

Also people from Argentinian forums claims the structure of TC2 and TC3 are very reminiscent of Argentine Turismo Nacional, as we know as Class 2 and Class 3.

One thing is sure, folks. On tin-tops, Argentine drivers have no match, as strong our series are. JM López is showing that on WTCC. Clearly.

[Speed-King]

Despite their talk about the touring car pyramid, I think the TC3-name isn't so much about TC1>2>3, but should rather be seen as an analogy to GT3.

That pyramid would eventually exist within the TC3 framework with national/regional series as a support to the international championship.

[iceman-1987]

i dont understand why announce a category and then explain the regulation between some months!

TC2 and TC3 should be used to prepare young drivers to the top series wtcc

[Deleted]

I'm sure the original idea of GT3 was to create stepping stone to GT1 and GT2 too but we all know how that ended up.

Mekola, I'm afraid FIA isn't going to give rats ass about domestic South American series, sorry. And it's just achronym anyway

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by iceman-1987

i dont understand why announce a category and then explain the regulation between some months!

Maybe trying to get manufacturers on board, at least as a supplier of customer cars? They'll also have to start working on a calender, etc... and there sure would have been plenty of rumors around about Lotti trying to set something up. By announcing their intentions early on, they can now to a certain degree control the spin on the whole thing.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Maybe trying to get manufacturers on board, at least as a supplier of customer cars?

How do you expect manufacturers to get on board if they don't know what they are building and customer teams to commit if they don't know what they are committing to buy.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by redshoes

How do you expect manufacturers to get on board if they don't know what they are building and customer teams to commit if they don't know what they are committing to buy.

Well, if I am right and they go by the original GT3-blue-print, the manufacturers have already built something (their one make series cars) and Lotti and co will make the rounds to talk them into approving those cars for TC3 and maybe building a mild kit.

Also, I'd think that manufacturers and perhaps interested teams have better access to the relevant information than we do...

[Rubio]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Maybe trying to get manufacturers on board

Don't really believe that manufacturers are going to be involved, more likly to see customers building their own cars. No incentive for manufacturers to participate here, at least for now