Spicing up V8 Supercars & Motorsport in general

[pete55]

I had an idea a while ago that would add a bit of excitement to V8 Supercars and also to motorsport in general.
Firstly V8 Supercars:

My idea was firstly to have two drivers in each car for the championship. The idea was to have our traditional long distance races of say 500K's and Bathurst of course (500K races at Sandown, Eastern Creek, Philip Island and QR. The other ciruits would hold 3 race programs with the lead driver and co driver alternating in the first 2 short races and then combine in a longer pit stop/ driver change race of say 300K's. The first two races could be either 100K or 150K races. Each driver would have to qualify for his solo race. The reason i propose this is to get more drivers involved in V8 Supercars and not fade from the scene when they miss out on a drive and to add excitement to the series.
Secondly Motorsport in general:
TC always says it is not his responsibility to look after other classes of racing but i point out just where does 'his' V8 Supercar class get it's new drivers from, other clases of course. Therefore the V8 Supercar program should support and promote other classes by sharing their V8 Program with the better classes of racing. F3, FF, Carrera Cup and Aussie Racing Cars, The way i see it is that TC will never get good coverage in the mainstream press unless motorsport in general is popular with fans thereby forcing those publications to cover it more. I also reckon CAMS have let down motorsport by being so weak ( even though they appear tough at times) and not looking after mainstream motorsport. After all this is what i thought they were there for.

[Falcadore]

According to the newspapers, being popular with fans, which it is, is not enough. V8Supercar has to be popular with readers. With their readers.

As for support categories? Well V8Supercar has the Fujitsu series. That's where they see they are getting their future drivers.

[storyline]

As an example against CAMS - have a look at their web site - in particular their 2006 calendar.

First week of January and the only sport happening this year, according to CAMS, are rallies and the occasional sprint meeting.

This, despite al major calendars having been out now for nearly 2 months.

[storyline]

But where does that feeder series get its drivers from? Or are you (not so seriously) suggesting that newcomers go straight to the Fujitsu series (or whatever its real name is in 2006) from, say, karting?

This is one major area that V8SCA appears to be totally neglecting - not just drivers either - but officials (look at the number of major key officials who have become disheartened over the last 5-6 years - which starts to show in the dubious calls sometimes made).

[Falcadore]

Doesn't matter to them. There will always be drivers coming from somewhere. V8Supercar drivers aren't going to Europe to race Formula One, so to certain extent they don't have to be the best drivers in the country. Theyll just be the best guys who can afford to race them. I don't think they'll shed a moments sleep if a cash poor driver whos father was a farmer can't get a V8Supercar ride, even if he does have a Formula Ford national crown.

[storyline]

My point is though that at prsent they have drivers coming up 'through the ranks' BUT some of them are decidedly 'second rank' drivers who, literally, have no where else to go.

Maybe with tongue in cheek the names Alex Yoong, Max Wilson spring to mind.

But then - have a look at the names of the current batch of drivers and compare them to the list of drivers recently posted in the 2001 Point Score thread - not many differences or new names, are there?

[mixxer]

First point is an interesting concept Pete, but I think it flys in the face of trying to reduce overall costs. Some of the smaller teams struggle to have enough money to compete all the events now without adding the extra driver salaries that your idea would require and another question it raises do we have 60+ drivers in this country who can punt the cars around competetively rather than just making up the numbers ?
As with most all improvements, you want to enhance the racing not dilute it.

On the issue raised in the second point, its not VESA job to promote motorsport in Aus ! That falls squarely at the feet of the promoters of the other series you mention, you dont see the Big E's F1 circus promoting GP2, GP2 is promoted by GP2 Motorsport Limited

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by storyline

But then - have a look at the names of the current batch of drivers and compare them to the list of drivers recently posted in the 2001 Point Score thread - not many differences or new names, are there?

storyline, was unsure if you were being sarcastic or night. But about a third of our regular drivers this year (11) were not on that list in 2001. that would be a reasonable turnover. but as far as the top 15 from this year go, they are all on the 2001 list and they tend to be towards the top in 2001 also rick kelly being the notable exception. its also fair to say that there were a nuber of drivers at the top in 2001 who were not there in 2000 (ambrose and besnard to start with)

[GTRMagic]

Bring back Rodney Forbes!!!!!!!!!

[Robert Ryan]

Look at V8utes at what other catergories can do to promote themselves(People like D.R.T. and others who blame all ills on V8Supercar) could take a leaf out of their book.

[pete55]

mixxer i don t think that it would make much difference with those other drivers added to the top team's budgets and with the lesser well off teams maybe the second and third driver could bring some budget to those teams.
As for your idea about not being V8SA's responsibility, well i think it is. Australia is not F1, it is not a world series, it is just a local championship. But you think the same way TC does so he would like you. I just think he is a leech.

[pete55]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Look at V8utes at what other catergories can do to promote themselves(People like D.R.T. and others who blame all ills on V8Supercar) could take a leaf out of their book.

The V8 Supercar concept was given to AVESCO, they didn't have to buy it or start it up from scratch. Fair enough they have promoted it reasonably well but at the same time they have forgotten that they are sucking the rest of the sport dry. I think you would find that in other sports the head organization puts some of the money that the top competition makes back into the lower grades and state competitions. Besides that if CAMS had any idea at all of how to promote motorsport it would never have gotten to this stage.

[mixxer]

As for your idea about not being V8SA's responsibility,

Yep thats my opinion

well i think it is.

And thats your opinion.

You wanted a discussion didnt you or did you only want people who agreed with you to reply.

[peckstar]

but Pete V8SA are not the head organisations, CAMS are. In australian rules, the aFL is the head organisation, in Cricket it's the ACB, but it's different in motor sport. CAMS have provided V8SA rights to promote one part of motor sport and they have done an exceptional job.

You should take all your dislike for V8SA and place it on CAMS, because it's their responsibility.

The sport is bigger now than it has been in the past with a lot more national catagories than when AVESCO took over, and those national catagories typically have larger fields with more top line drives than when AVESCO took over.

[mixxer]

You should take all your dislike for V8SA and place it on CAMS, because it's their responsibility

Why would he ? This thread is just another thinly veiled TC & VESA Bash.

[pete55]

I dislike CAMS as much as i dislike TC. I think they are weak as i said.

[peckstar]

mixer Pete's idea was reasonable good idea though

Pete, why do you want TC to do CAMS job.

surely you cant blame TC for doing the job he has been given and doing it well.

[Robert Ryan]

Why would he ? This thread is just another thinly veiled TC & VESA Bash
Where is Storyline and D.R.T when you need them LOL

[pete55]

Originally Posted by peckstar

mixer Pete's idea was reasonable good idea though

Pete, why do you want TC to do CAMS job.

surely you cant blame TC for doing the job he has been given and doing it well.

I thought i said that i thought the situation would never have gotten to this it CAMS did what they should have done. I also replied to mixxer that i didn't think the second driver's salary would greatly affect the top teams' budgets greatly and may even help the other less funded teams by drivers bringing funding to those teams.
The closed shop V8SA have does not help these younger drivers and the slightly less talented ( although still very good drivers). It also makes it predictable and stale as far as i'm concerned. Maybe that is why they can't get mainstream media coverage. Even the motorsport mags have to interview the same drivers over and over again. I don't even bother reading these articles as you most probably know what is going to be in them anyway.

[GTRMagic]

Did it help at all that CAMS wasnt exactly flush with dosh when this bloke on the white horse rocked up and promised to show them the way forward.........

[pete55]

There should be no problem getting 68 drivers for this type of championship. They do it every year now for Sandown and Bathurst.

[F J Nedos]

If people are concerned about costs regarding multiple drivers per round, implement a salary cap. Combined driver wages cannot exceed $x e.g.

But as has been mentioned on this post, only a handful of top drivers will drain the budgets. The other spots would be filled by drivers on relatively low salaries.

Teams would likely pair the two guns in each car, and the two up and comers in the other.

I reckon some night time races would be good. Maybe like a day nighter in the cricket where the race starts late afternoon and finishes in the night. That would be a good way to handle the hot stints in Adelaide. A street circuit should be good for lights. Adelaide would be a good example of the 2 drivers per car thing.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by pete55

I thought i said that i thought the situation would never have gotten to this it CAMS did what they should have done. I also replied to mixxer that i didn't think the second driver's salary would greatly affect the top teams' budgets greatly and may even help the other less funded teams by drivers bringing funding to those teams.
The closed shop V8SA have does not help these younger drivers and the slightly less talented ( although still very good drivers). It also makes it predictable and stale as far as i'm concerned. Maybe that is why they can't get mainstream media coverage. Even the motorsport mags have to interview the same drivers over and over again. I don't even bother reading these articles as you most probably know what is going to be in them anyway.

isn't that the idea of the development series though (A V8SA initiative) which saw around 25 younger and slightly less talented drivers compete in a 6 round series often on the undercard of the main series.

the australian cricket team still manages to get main stream coverage and there players are often not exactly new to the main game.

as i said, you have a good idea, its Obvious (to me anyway) flaw , being the top teams would pay the money to get the best co driver.

i agreee that things may not have got to the way there are if CAMS did what they should have, but thats hardly TC's fault. he has done a marvellous job, doing what he has been paid to do. the v8 series has never beeen stronger.

seperate but related question, what do CAMS see out of v8's.l there must be some sort of sanctioing fees paid?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

surely you cant blame TC for doing the job he has been given and doing it well.

Well walked ground this topic.

Sure the v8s are strong. However the amount street racing, overseas racing, treatment of permanent tracks is a big negative for Australian motorsport. So on this level, surely I can blame TC ?

And yes Cams have let Avesco/Vesa walk all over them and have been happy to accept the cheques without putting back into other categories.

[pete55]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Well walked ground this topic.

Sure the v8s are strong. However the amount street racing, overseas racing, treatment of permanent tracks is a big negative for Australian motorsport. So on this level, surely I can blame TC ?

Don't start me on street circuits.

My main point in this topic was to suggest that a two driver series as i mooted would be much better than we have now. If two car teams were forced to split their No.1 and 2 drivers the number 3 and 4 drivers would have to do a good job or they would be out of a drive. This would certainly add more interest to each race. If cost cutting measures were implemented into the class the cost if any of codrivers would not be an issue.