Dispute threatens 2011 Australian GP

[E.B]

Dispute threatens 2011 Australian GP

The Australian Grand Prix's place on next year's Formula 1 calendar is under threat because of a row over fees with CAMS, the country's motorsport governing body.

CAMS has been asked by Australian Grand Prix promoters to lower the fees it charges to help organise the Melbourne race - believed to be around £500,000 - but has so far refused to do so.

And amid a stand-off between the two parties, CAMS has threatened to lodge a request with the FIA that the event be dropped from the 2011 schedule if the dispute is not settled before November 19.

Full Story Here

Hopefully it is all a storm in a teacup and will be resolved one way or the other.

[jab]

Storm in a teacup was what sprung to mind with me too - Ron Walker says there that they could always use another organising body, and Bernie wants to keep the race on the calendar, so I'm not too concerned, although it's not exactly a positive for the race

[Teretonga]

If CAMS got shot over this not too many people in Australia would mourn for them.
A number of people might even rejoice.

There will be a way to deal with it. CAMS will back down or lose face....

[johntt]

The cost of the GP and its inability to turn a profit is a political hot potato there, and the way Bernie rode over the democratic process in order to get the race there was also highly questionable.

Personally I'd like to see them go back to Adelaide, and make it a night race

[GTRMagic]

Adelaide is full, with the Clipsal 500 V8Supercar event.. so not going there I shouldnt think.

New state election in Victoria on November 27 means the media is jumping on anything to smash the incumbents and funnily enough also the opposition...

The numbers being discussed are immense! Where does the cash go I would wonder?

[strider]

Doesn't some sort of query about the Australian Grand Prix arise every year?

I have fond memories of Adelaide, too, but I guess we have to go with what's possible now.

I heard that CAMS wasn't very popular years ago. There as another title using the same initials. I forget the first word, but it might have been Campaign. The other three were definitely Against Motor Sport...

[inpitlane]

CAMS needs to cut it's costs but Bernie is free to extort millions from the taxpayer every year. Meanwhile the people who ensure the safe and efficient running of the event: The Flaggies, Firies etc, get screwed more and more every year and the sport as a whole gets nothing out of it.
Not one member of the Australian GP Board has any connection at all with motorsport in this country.
Alan Jones left, Brocky died, and in each case they were replaced by corporate mates of Ron Walker who think the grand prix is a fashion festival and rock concert briefly disrupted for a lot of noisy cars to go round and round in circles for 2 hours.
I'd like to think the FIA would stand up for its' ASN but of course we know that's not going to happen.

[cavvy]

Heard the chief of the AGP office (missed his name) on Melbourne radio acknowledge the have a disagreement with CAMS?

Inferred CAMS will be told to toe the line, just no idea of what the issue is?

Hello, hello ...

[yap]

I think this was the story

CAMS asking for 800 grand from the F1 organisers in Melbourne

[peckstar]

also CAMs will not tender for the job

AGP believe they can get a cheaper deal from OS

[inpitlane]

This is pure greed from the AGP Corp. The amount is not $800'000 but around $500'000 and provides all the marshals, officials and day to day running of the actual motor race meeting that the AGP corp don't really know or care about.
As CAMS CEO David Morgan said, what the AGP Corp and the Vic State Government wants CAMS to do is effectively subsidise the running of the GP using funds sourced from CAMS members.
It's the equivalent of a business losing $40 million and sacking the tea lady and changing all the toilet paper to single ply.
It's yet another example of a Grand Prix board where the members know absolutely nothing about the sport and couldn't care less anyway.
Not one member of the current Board is a "motor sport" person.
The officials are treated increasingly badly and Walkers statement that "they get free uniforms and free food so what more do they want?" is obscene.
BTW when it comes to saving money, perhaps sending almost everybody from the GP office to Abu Dhabi this weekend including the PR head is pretty wasteful.
No doubt though CAMS will back down on this one like they did with VESA and yet again the grass roots of the sport will suffer to pay for it.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by inpitlane

This is pure greed from the AGP Corp. The amount is not $800'000 but around $500'000 and provides all the marshals, officials and day to day running of the actual motor race meeting that the AGP corp don't really know or care about.
As CAMS CEO David Morgan said, what the AGP Corp and the Vic State Government wants CAMS to do is effectively subsidise the running of the GP using funds sourced from CAMS members.
It's the equivalent of a business losing $40 million and sacking the tea lady and changing all the toilet paper to single ply.
It's yet another example of a Grand Prix board where the members know absolutely nothing about the sport and couldn't care less anyway.
Not one member of the current Board is a "motor sport" person.
The officials are treated increasingly badly and Walkers statement that "they get free uniforms and free food so what more do they want?" is obscene.
BTW when it comes to saving money, perhaps sending almost everybody from the GP office to Abu Dhabi this weekend including the PR head is pretty wasteful.
No doubt though CAMS will back down on this one like they did with VESA and yet again the grass roots of the sport will suffer to pay for it.

So why dont CAMS be transparent .... IF its as simple as you are impling IPL.

Experience with VESA says its not that simple IPL, lots of people being used. Not just the Grand Prix board.

[yap]

Originally Posted by inpitlane

This is pure greed from the AGP Corp. The amount is not $800'000 but around $500'000 and provides all the marshals, officials and day to day running of the actual motor race meeting that the AGP corp don't really know or care about.
As CAMS CEO David Morgan said, what the AGP Corp and the Vic State Government wants CAMS to do is effectively subsidise the running of the GP using funds sourced from CAMS members.
It's the equivalent of a business losing $40 million and sacking the tea lady and changing all the toilet paper to single ply.
It's yet another example of a Grand Prix board where the members know absolutely nothing about the sport and couldn't care less anyway.
Not one member of the current Board is a "motor sport" person.
The officials are treated increasingly badly and Walkers statement that "they get free uniforms and free food so what more do they want?" is obscene.
BTW when it comes to saving money, perhaps sending almost everybody from the GP office to Abu Dhabi this weekend including the PR head is pretty wasteful.
No doubt though CAMS will back down on this one like they did with VESA and yet again the grass roots of the sport will suffer to pay for it.

Not trying to start an argument here

Aren't all the marshalls, etc volunteers....

Where does the 500/800 grand they are asking for go ??

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by inpitlane

The officials are treated increasingly badly and Walkers statement that "they get free uniforms and free food so what more do they want?" is obscene.

That's not what he said in the linked article. He's pointing out that the food and uniforms are supplied by AGP and the marshals are volunteers and so no payment is made to them. In other words, what are CAMS charging for since the marshals' cost is bourne by AGP?

I don't know if that's factually accurate, but that's how I read his statement in that article.

[rik]

Originally Posted by inpitlane

As CAMS CEO David Morgan said, what the AGP Corp and the Vic State Government wants CAMS to do is effectively subsidise the running of the GP using funds sourced from CAMS members.
It's the equivalent of a business losing $40 million and sacking the tea lady and changing all the toilet paper to single ply.

Something sounds very sus about this...

If CAMS are gonna lose money, why not call the AGPC bluff and let's see if they can find another organisation to 'run' the GP at a cheaper cost???

But instead CAMS are threatening to make joke of Australia on the international stage of motorsport by having the FIA cancel the event?!?!?!

[PVDA]

The CAMS response to this that came out overnight.

IMPORTANT LETTER TO CAMS MEMBERS AND ACCREDITED OFFICIALS

Dear CAMS Colleague

You may have seen the media reports surrounding the current dispute between the Australian Grand Prix Corporation (AGPC) and CAMS.

It is important you understand the reasons behind the dispute.

CAMS has, over many years, performed a number of roles involving the AGP including acting as Sporting Organiser, issuing the Permit for the race and all the support races and activities, providing certain insurances for officials, applying for FIA calendar listing, ensuring compliance with FIA standards, authorising FIA track inspections and many other tasks. For this CAMS received a fee which was calculated to equate to the total costs CAMS incurred in its involvement with the AGP.

In August 2010 after months of negotiation CAMS’ and AGPC's Chief Executives reached agreement on a proposal which was put to AGPC's Board. However that proposal was rejected by AGPC's Board.

Following this rejection, and without warning, AGPC demanded a significant cut to which CAMS responded with a further reduction. This was subsequently rejected by AGPC.

To put the current dispute in context, the cost to AGPC of CAMS' services is less than 0.625% of the AGPC's annual budget and the difference between CAMS’ proposal and AGPC’s position is less than 0.1% of AGPC's annual budget.

For CAMS to deliver further reductions, it would have had to “subsidise” the AGP from other member activities or from members’ reserves. This it could not justify. Accordingly it refused to agree to what it believed to be an unreasonable demand and subsequently AGPC has decided to try to “go it alone”.

CAMS has invested extensively in developing and training its officials over many years and has produced one of the world’s best officiating teams for the Australian Grand Prix. You should be rightly proud of your achievements and the regard in which you are held internationally.

Officiating has provided thousands of CAMS members with unforgettable experiences – which in recent times have been extended to include the Singapore and Korea Grands Prix. These are the rewards of membership in an organisation where people work together with common purpose and a passion for the sport.

CAMS has been the organiser of the Australian Formula One Grand Prix since 1985 in Adelaide and since 1996 at Albert Park in Melbourne.

CAMS' annual fee to organise the Australian Formula One Grand Prix is substantially less than the AUD$800,000 or £500,000 stated in some reports.

This is principally an issue about safety and not fees and we do not believe the Australian Formula One Grand Prix can be run safely without the high degree of professional and safety expertise that CAMS can deliver.

CAMS and the FIA have also received the advice of Senior Counsel that their actions in putting a fair proposal to the AGPC in no way contravene Australian competition law or are in any way inappropriate.

The FIA requires that a Grand Prix may only be organised in Australia if CAMS is prepared to sign an Organisation Agreement with the FIA. At CAMS request the FIA has extended the deadline for CAMS to confirm it will sign such an agreement until November 19. Under FIA rules, without CAMS agreement as ASN, the AGP will not be conducted.

The Victorian Government has been kept informed of developments.

Moving forward on this issue, CAMS greatly appreciates the solid support and dedication of our members and officials. CAMS is committed to resolving this issue with the AGPC and once again fielding a team of officials at the Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix that we can all be immensely proud of.

I am certain that you as a CAMS member do not wish to see member funds used to subsidise this event and I am equally sure that you do not want your Confederation to be bullied into an agreement which is not justifiable.


Yours sincerely


David Morgan

Once again the AGP Corp is trying to screw the volunteer marshal force although this time they're going to the top instead of the hands and feet like me.

How many of you realise we were issued with a set of overalls for the 1996 first Albert Park GP and we are all still using the same uniforms??

In the 11 years at Adelaide we were issued a total of 4 overalls with the longest time between pairs of about 4 years.

Every year the penny pinching by the AGPC sees something being taken from the 1100 strong CAMS volunteer marshal team.

Don't all die of shock in the fact I'm defending CAMS on this one......

[peckstar]

PVDA, im not arguing with you

but you have quoted an email and then you make no reference to the email but you bag out the AGP corp for stuff that isnt in the email

[cavvy]

From the Fairfax press:

"We call tenders to all the services to the Grand Prix and CAMS were unwilling to comply with our request," said Walker, who is in Abu Dhabi for talks with F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone.

"Then the (Victorian) Government decided that as CAMS was a monopoly, they wanted competitive tendering in all pricing, which is what the ACCC demands.

"But CAMS have resisted and have said to the World Motorsport Council that if the Australian Grand Prix do not comply then we will apply to have them removed from the calendar.

Walker said the AGP Corporation was unhappy with the layers of managers and officials CAMS felt they needed to organise motorsport in Australia.

He said that Ecclestone had told him CAMS can remain the overriding national sporting authority but it was possible to appoint another organiser, such as the organiser of the British Grand Prix.

"It is the downright threat that has got the ire of the government and everybody else," Walker said.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/motor...112-17rdg.html

[oz_watcher]

Originally Posted by cavvy

He said that Ecclestone had told him CAMS can remain the overriding national sporting authority but it was possible to appoint another organiser, such as the organiser of the British Grand Prix.

Aren't Singapore and Korea examples of where the ASN (unlike CAMS' role at AGP) is not the organiser? Is the AGPC hoping just to relieve CAMS of their role as organiser?

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by oz_watcher

Aren't Singapore and Korea examples of where the ASN (unlike CAMS' role at AGP) is not the organiser? Is the AGPC hoping just to relieve CAMS of their role as organiser?

Idle speculation oz_watcher.

The event financier has directed the organiser to have CAMS tender & they appear to have refused, so the financier can either accept it or not.

[PVDA]

Sorry if I confused you Peckstar.

The e-mail pretty much explains it quite well and my comments follow on from that on a wider perspective.

I s'pose CAMS could always tender for it (or not even bother) and if the AGPC finds someone cheaper they could use them next year. Then when the 2011 event is a dismal failure the AGPC will realise their error and go back to CAMS.

But knowing the way the AGPC operates they wouldn't know if their respective backsides where on fire unless told via the correct form filled in in triplicate

[oz_watcher]

Which part is idle?

AFAIK, every event has three main players:
1. Governing rule body (FIA delegated authority or other similar)
2. Organiser (effectively taking care of competition side, schedule, etc... You know the bits between the two catch fences)
3. Promoter (making sure paying punters turn up and have something to see both inside the catch fences and outside, plus collecting the money and paying the bills)

Again AFAIK, in Singapore and Korea the ASN performed role #1 only, but with little leakage here and there. For Australian GP, CAMS perform #1 and #2, with AGPC performing #3, again with a certain amount of leakage between roles.

Ecclestone's comment confirm he is advising the AGPC to consider the ASN not performing #2. A structure CAMS shouldn't be unfamiliar with.

[JABWOA]

Which is the main problem here with the ASN (#1) refusing to issue a license for the event on the grounds of safety, possibly due to possibly having an inferior Organiser (#2) take over which means the promoter has nothing to promote (#3)

In Korea, KARA was the ASN and KAVO the organiser and promoter.
I believe Singapore has the ASN as the organiser and a seperate company as the promoter (like the Australian Grand Prix.)

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by cavvy

"We call tenders to all the services to the Grand Prix and CAMS were unwilling to comply with our request," said Walker.

"Then the (Victorian) Government decided that as CAMS was a monopoly, they wanted competitive tendering in all pricing, which is what the ACCC demands.

"But CAMS have resisted

The event requires Police officers, from the above, are we to believe that the AGPC puts out a tender for the provison of police officers and the Victoria Police always gets the gig because they offered the best tender? Bull****!!!

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

The event requires Police officers, from the above, are we to believe that the AGPC puts out a tender for the provison of police officers and the Victoria Police always gets the gig because they offered the best tender? Bull****!!!

Roger that bull stuff.

When the Vic Govt funds the Police it has control (theoretically) of where the money goes via the Auditor General.

Who controls CAMS. Not its constituency, & certainly not Vics Auditor General.

If CAMS put up, its over ... refuse at their own peril.