MSUK consultation - action required by end of this month

[pomracer]

If like me you have been deluged with emails within the last two days by clubs that you race with, then you will know all about the MSUK consultation.


Am surprised that nobody has started a thread, as responses have to be submitted to MSUK by the end of this month. It seems odd that this appears to have almost sneaked under the radar....

[Mike Harte]

I saw a similar plea on a Facebook page, and I must admit I had to dig about a bit to actually find the relevant page on MSUK's site.

It appears that they want to stop clubs awarding prizes and pots, etc to winners of a series of races; apparently this should only be permitted for races that are a part of a championship.

Would I be right in assuming that MSUK charge a fee for granting a licence for a championship, but not or possibly less for a series? And that this is all about money for the MSUK?


A further thought to any mods reading this; should this thread be copied to National & Club Racing as this applies to them as well?

[Peter H]

I agree. I have only been made aware of this recently and it would certainly adversely impact historic racing. I am mainly with the HGPCA, essentially a bunch of old enthusiasts who love to go racing and put on a show in their old, largely original and genuine, Grand Prix cars, some of which are very special in a historical context. I have not yet delved deeply into the rules (including the FIA rules if overseas events are to be maintained) but I am not so sure that we will be able to operate at all, let alone as safely, under these rules which impose a set of rules really designed for professional racing.

As App K notes, historic racing is a discipline apart.

I am afraid to say that I think that this is a significant proposed assault on historic racing and needs responses from us all.

[Peter H]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I saw a similar plea on a Facebook page, and I must admit I had to dig about a bit to actually find the relevant page on MSUK's site.

It appears that they want to stop clubs awarding prizes and pots, etc to winners of a series of races; apparently this should only be permitted for races that are a part of a championship.

Would I be right in assuming that MSUK charge a fee for granting a licence for a championship, but not or possibly less for a series? And that this is all about money for the MSUK?

It’s so much more than that. No more than six races (does that mean three events if there are two races at one event?), no overseas rounds, external scrutineers, parc ferme, the list goes on. Cost is actually only a small part of the issue!

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by pomracer

If like me you have been deluged with emails within the last two days by clubs that you race with, then you will know all about the MSUK consultation.


Am surprised that nobody has started a thread, as responses have to be submitted to MSUK by the end of this month. It seems odd that this appears to have almost sneaked under the radar....

I did put up notice of this on the RENDEZVOUS thread on 3rd Aug , but very few people seemed to be worried about it .

[pomracer]

Originally Posted by Peter H

I agree. I have only been made aware of this recently and it would certainly adversely impact historic racing. I am mainly with the HGPCA, essentially a bunch of old enthusiasts who love to go racing and put on a show in their old, largely original and genuine, Grand Prix cars, some of which are very special in a historical context. I have not yet delved deeply into the rules (including the FIA rules if overseas events are to be maintained) but I am not so sure that we will be able to operate at all, let alone as safely, under these rules which impose a set of rules really designed for professional racing.

As App K notes, historic racing is a discipline apart.

I am afraid to say that I think that this is a significant proposed assault on historic racing and needs responses from us all.

Absolutely! it seems that historic racing will really be the sector to suffer if this goes ahead.

Perhaps someone with better tech skills than I could put up on here the MSUK proposal so that everyone can see the threat posed?
Julius has emailed HRDC racers, ditto CSCC has sent out an urgent email.

[pomracer]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

I did put up notice of this on the RENDEZVOUS thread on 3rd Aug , but very few people seemed to be worried about it .

Just seen it - they should be worried!.


(No offence to Ten Tenthers etc but I don't bother reading Rendevous etc )

[Tel 911S]

This seems to be the link to the site .https://www.motorsportuk.org/sport80-general-faqs/

And guess what ? it looks like it is down until 19th Aug .

[morninggents]

I am somewhat confused. What has the Sport 80 Motorsport Management System have to do with clubs giving awards for series races rather than championships?

I have seen no notifications from HSCC, HRDC, CSCC or other clubs.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

This seems to be the link to the site .https://www.motorsportuk.org/sport80-general-faqs/

And guess what ? it looks like it is down until 19th Aug .

Only the membership platform is affected.

[pomracer]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I am somewhat confused. What has the Sport 80 Motorsport Management System have to do with clubs giving awards for series races rather than championships?

I have seen no notifications from HSCC, HRDC, CSCC or other clubs.

I have received emails about this from both HRDC and CSCC within the last two days - both giving details of the consultation together with suggested email reply for you to send.

[pomracer]

here is a link to the CSCC email:


Action Required Now: MSUK Rule Proposals that affect your Club. (classicsportscarclub.co.uk)

[pomracer]

and to HRDC




THE-FUTURE-OF-HISTORIC-RACE-SERIES-ACTION-REQUIRED-NOW.pdf (hrdc.uk)

[pomracer]

and finally, I have cut and pasted this (below) from a race organisers email / news , which is the actual MSUK proposal:


1.-Action-Sheet-Q6.2-Series-for-Consultation.pdf (motorsportuk.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com)

[Plantagenet]

Sorry to be dim but what's the context for this move from MSUK which i imagine affects many series, not just historics. It seems unnecessarily strict. I also imagine the circuits would be against this - if this went forward, it would almost certainly curtail a series such as CSCC which I imagine brings in good income to the UK circuits

[midgetman]

The answer is simple. Do what many kart tracks/series/championships have done - ditch MSUK.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by pomracer

and finally, I have cut and pasted this (below) from a race organisers email / news , which is the actual MSUK proposal:


1.-Action-Sheet-Q6.2-Series-for-Consultation.pdf (motorsportuk.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com)

There is a second proposal which while not as instantly fun-wrecking as the first, will affect many drivers as it bans ANY device in-car that uses GPS unless the Organisers SPECIFICALLY allow it in their event regs. It must affect Video V-Box, other similar video systems, Aim Solo type devices, etc etc. No tangible or sensible reason given for this one - my suspicion is that MSUK will later mandate a system that can only be got from them at a cost; or in simple terms 'Follow the money'. Here's the link:

https://motorsportuk.s3.eu-west-2.am...nsultation.pdf

The whole process stinks; the Motorsport UK race committee meeting took place on 19th June. It has taken seven weeks for these proposals to be published (8th August), leaving licence holders just three weeks to have their say. In August, when most people will be away on holiday. Do they think we're stupid?
"just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you'

So, please, read the links, formulate your response and put it in an email to raceconsultation@motorsportuk.org

[kipper]

Leaving aside the merits of the idea, the thought strikes me that there are some easy work arounds, which render the idea counter productive. For example, what would stop, say, the CSCC from running a six race spring Classic K series over the first half of the year, followed by a separate six race autumn series in the second - aside from potentially an extra registration fee, it would seem to comply with MSUK's regulations (I'm not saying CSCC will do this - I've merely used them as an illustration).

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

There is a second proposal which while not as instantly fun-wrecking as the first, will affect many drivers as it bans ANY device in-car that uses GPS unless the Organisers SPECIFICALLY allow it in their event regs. It must affect Video V-Box, other similar video systems, Aim Solo type devices, etc etc. No tangible or sensible reason given for this one - my suspicion is that MSUK will later mandate a system that can only be got from them at a cost; or in simple terms 'Follow the money'. Here's the link:

https://motorsportuk.s3.eu-west-2.am...nsultation.pdf

]

Easy to bypass "oh I only use this in testing, look it's switched off now." Or "no this isn't working off GPS look I have a magnetic sensor fitted."

I can't see MSUK supplying "approved" hardware, what I can see is they charge AIM/Alfano/GoPro an "approval fee". You may not remember the furore caused when AMB bought out a new karting transponder, we weren't allowed to use it until it had been "tested and approved" by the then MSA. Which took so long the old version stock had run out. It was great for my profit margin as I had a couple of old ones to sell

Or we will need a "GPS Licence" every season. Anyone else on here old enough to remember when we had to have an advertising permit stuck on the car to allow us to display sponsor logos?

Mind you in its current form the new rule is going to be exciting to implement. Imagine the queues at scrutineering as they wade through the Championship regs to see if your GPS device is allowed.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[morninggents]

I see this as a grubby money making scheme by MSUK (the last three letters say it all) forcing race series to become championships. It's also a restrictive practice in limiting 'series' races to six per season. Having been a competition licence holder from 1964 to 2015 and a club official from 1997 until the present I have seen the RAC/MSA/MSUK move from an administrative organisation to a more dictatorial position in our motor sport. They should represent the best interests of all members This move is the opposite of that.

In my opinion the present hierarchy there is the worst it has ever been.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I see this as a grubby money making scheme by MSUK (the last three letters say it all) forcing race series to become championships. It's also a restrictive practice in limiting 'series' races to six per season. Having been a competition licence holder from 1964 to 2015 and a club official from 1997 until the present I have seen the RAC/MSA/MSUK move from an administrative organisation to a more dictatorial position in our motor sport. They should represent the best interests of all members This move is the opposite of that.

In my opinion the present hierarchy there is the worst it has ever been.

I think you are right . Like you , I had my first competition licence in the 1960s .
But over the last few years they seem to have moved away from looking after their members interests and gone more into controlling everything and trying to take money from everybody .
Note the long thread we had about them wanting to sell carnets , [ via a third person ], to everybody who competed abroad .

[pomracer]

I have received yet another email from a race organiser - one of the points made is that they WERE NOT CONSULTED. So this has come out of the blue, and it seems that the proposed changes could have a huge impact on historic racing especially as so many organisers run series, often with one race in Europe (eg Spa, or Portimao ).


CSCC, HRDC have issued suggested template letters for anyone to use in responding to MSUK.



I have copied and pasted in below another template I have received, just for interest:


Dear Sir,

I note the Motorsport UK Race Committee’s proposal to revise the rules in the Blue Book in relation to what may qualify as a ‘Series’.

I think that there is significant over-reach in the proposals which are likely to affect the viability of historic racing. This is a valued strand of motorsport but is ‘a discipline apart’ from generic motor racing. I compete in historic racing events.

In particular, the extension of the existing regulations to prevent there from being more than six events in a series, as well as the prohibition of any non-UK event, seems to be excessive and very much against what the historic race community wishes.

To place such racing into the ‘Championship’ category carries with it considerably more administration and prescription; quite unsuitable to historic racing which is undertaken overwhelmingly by enthusiastic amateurs for neither reward nor career enhancement, but rather for social enjoyment at home or abroad.

Finally, as Drivers we enjoy receiving awards, even if given on support and merit, rather than results and feel that race Series organisers should be permitted to hand over trophies to the Drivers.

Yours sincerely,

[peebee2]

So the (self-appointed and self-styled so-called) “regulator” wants to force clubs to pay much more in subscriptions to them?

[JimW]

Missing from both consultations (https://www.motorsportuk.org/the-spo...-consultation/) is much in the way of coherent argument as to why the changes are being proposed.
Remember that most of the people who come up with or agree these proposals will be known to many of us. They are proposing what they feel is right for the sport. Engage with them on that basis.

[rbs]

My guess is that MSUK are coming under pressure from the clubs that are losing out to CSCC on entries, such as HSCC who has lost seval to CSCC meetings. MSUK must be going to lose out on licence fees if the series racers give up and stop racing.