LBGP Staring Grid ?!

[zerO]

Time to say "bye-bye" to the old line-up thread = finally we reached the point where we can see the 18 car grid that Kalkhoven sees and talks about so much and he even bet TG $100K that it would materialize.

Here's the line-up we're going to see at Long Beach come April 16-18 (as I see it, ofcourse):

1. FORSYTHE - Paul Tracy
2. FORSYTHE - Rodolfo Lavin
3. FORSYTHE - Patrick Carpentier
4. NEWMAN/HAAS - Sebastien Bourdais
5. NEWMAN/HAAS - Bruno Junqueira
6. HERDEZ - Mario Dominguez
7. HERDEZ - Ryan Hunter-Reay
8. COYNE - Michael Keohane
9. COYNE - Jaime Melo or Geoff Boss or Tomas Enge ?
10. BACHELART - Justin Wilson
11. BACHELART - Alex Sperafico
12. KALKHOVEN - Jimmy Vasser
13. KALKHOVEN - Roberto Gonzalez
14. GENTILOZZI - Alex Tagliani
15. GENTILOZZI - Nelson Philippe
16. RUSSO - Michel Jourdain
17. RUSSO - AJ Allmendinger
18. WALKER - Michael Valiante or Jonathan Macri ?

Possibles:

19. WALKER - Ricardo Sperafico or Christian Fittipaldi or Townsend Bell ?
20. FITTIPALDI - Gaston Mazzacane or Christian Fittipaldi or Ricardo Sperafico ?

NOTE: even though Jourdain has subbed for 'Dinger in a RüSPORT car at Sebring testing there still is a chance that he'll actually wind-up in NHR's third entry - that dilemma hasn't been resolved yet, or as it ?!

btw, updated picturesque version = http://www.planet.nl/~f1/cart2k4.htm - note: "confirmed" is in black ?!

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[zerO]

Now, for those who are concerned - let me mention the "GHOST TEAM" concept.

We all know that OWRS has gone to extreme lengths in order to come up with the 18 car grid for Long Beach. Especially due to Fernandez' and Rahal's exit.

Officially there isn't any ESP thingy this year, but we all know (KK said so himself) that some teams will be co-funded by OWRS. And with each of those "co-funded" team the actual "help" will vary. Since OWRS is a private company we shall never know the specifics and that is good ?!

Many car racing series have a "ghost" team or two, but the CCWS is about to make history when the starting grid will be composed of over 30% "ghost" teams ?! Here's the list:

1. FORSYTHE third car - confirmed
2. COYNE second car - most likely using Reynards courtesy of Walker/Firman
3. BACHELART second car - Reynards courtesy of Forsythe - confirmed
4. RüSPORT second car - Lolas courtesy of Gentilozzi
5. FITTIPALDI only car - Lolas courtesy of Kalkhoven (ex-PPI)
6. WALKER second car

Add to that the fact that 3 two-car teams are in the hands of OWRS owners and what do we get ?? - a private little open-wheeled racing series.

------------------------------------------

Now, the reason I wrote the above is simple: sooner or later the trolls will keep bringing this up as if it was something negative about our series... well, I say "kudos" to OWRS for all their efforts in keeping CART alive... besides, the IRL is composed of much more "ghost" teams if one was to look into it and try bringing it into an arguement... to sum it all up: OW racing in US is in DEEP KAKA ?!

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[zerO]

Update:

Supposedly tomorrow RüSPORT will make an announcement as to their second driver... it isn't certain yet whether it will be Michel Jourdain or Oriol Servia ?!... according to the latest in Mexican press Gigante/Jourdain has almost finalized their deal with NHR and an announcement is expected on that as well... we'll see what influence OWRS exerts in this little fiasco...

COYNE = the two TBA drivers will most likely be Michael Keohane and one of these: Jaime Melo, Geoff Boss, Tomas Enge, Mario Haberfeld, or Oriol Servia - very complicated dilemma here but the latest from the Grapevine is that Haberfeld may forego his planned move to Brazilian stocks and take a seat with DCR.

The 18th car will most likely come from Walker... for Emmo's team all we can do is cross our fingers...

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[bella]

when's coyne due to announce then? i know the release said some time soon but i need answers damnit!

[sgw2]

DCR never announces much. And why would they? The drivers are all "Hertz" anyway.

zer0,

One of the rumors about Jourdain hanging around RüSPORT instead of NHR is Gigante wont commit anything close to the buddget they provided Rahal - if they even stay with Michel after what happened (switcheroos are not popular in the board room). So Michel is shopping the smaller teams, and doesn't have much of an edge over Oriol Servia.

Its a rumor, and I wont give it weight. But it is something to keep in mind until Michel lands.

[Tenoch]

I wouldn't blame gigante after all they pumped so much money into Michel and the Mexican races that they want something inreturn, that was part of Michel teaming up with Rahal to begin with. Where are these Cristian Fittapaldi rumours coming from anyway, I thought he had it nice in NASCAR. (Just kidding)

[JohnSSC]

I am still trying to figure out how having 30% of the grid made up of ghost teams is a good thing?

Many here were critical of Pookfare (after the fact since a number were in favor of it initially), but now that the company is private and we are not privvy to the details ignorance is now somehow bliss?

I guess I continue to miss the 'positive" nature of having to make your series look more attractive by primping up the grid. if this concept catches on soon Ford will be buying Tauruses from itself to improve sales...

[macdaddy]

John...
I'm happy to have any grid at all. I don't care about Pookfare or ghost teams anymore. At least, not right now.

There will be a green flag before there will be a checkered.

[cartpix]

Originally posted by macdaddy
John...
I'm happy to have any grid at all. I don't care about Pookfare or ghost teams anymore. At least, not right now.

If it goes on for a couple of seasons, it would be a bad thing. To get things rolling now, I don't mind at all. This is a whole new deal & needs all the help it can get.

Jeff

[Liz]

Agree with cartpix on that. Since we can't do one darned thing about the financial management of CCWS/OWRS, and we don't know what they are doing in the boardroom, why keep on harping at it? I don't care if they are financing their teams by magic wand. I just want to see them RACE!

Cut the -- DROP THE FLAG!

[zerO]

Originally posted by sgw2
DCR never announces much. And why would they? The drivers are all "Hertz" anyway.

zer0,

One of the rumors about Jourdain hanging around RüSPORT instead of NHR is Gigante wont commit anything close to the buddget they provided Rahal - if they even stay with Michel after what happened (switcheroos are not popular in the board room). So Michel is shopping the smaller teams, and doesn't have much of an edge over Oriol Servia.

Its a rumor, and I wont give it weight. But it is something to keep in mind until Michel lands.

I figured as much when I've learned that Tecate jumped on this bandwagon... anyhow, hopefully we'll see some of Jordy's paint rub off on 'Dinger's car instead of that heineous yellow blank car - why can't they just paint one car in Tecate colors since they are such great supporters of CCWS... I'd rather do that (for free) out of gratitude to Tecate then run a blank car ?!

zerO

[zerO]

Update:

OK, Jorduain got confirmed... and here's a latest blah-blah from Gentilozzi's big mouth = http://www.sptimes.com/2004/03/30/Sp...ad_to_be.shtml - 17 drivers signed and 4 more on the horizon ?! - so he says.

Here's the line-up we're going to see at Long Beach come April 16-18 (as I see it, ofcourse):

1. FORSYTHE - Paul Tracy
2. FORSYTHE - Rodolfo Lavin
3. FORSYTHE - Patrick Carpentier
4. NEWMAN/HAAS - Sebastien Bourdais
5. NEWMAN/HAAS - Bruno Junqueira
6. HERDEZ - Mario Dominguez
7. HERDEZ - Ryan Hunter-Reay
8. COYNE - Michael Keohane
9. COYNE - Mario Haberfeld or Jaime Melo or Geoff Boss or Tomas Enge or Oriol Servia ?
10. BACHELART - Justin Wilson
11. BACHELART - Alex Sperafico
12. KALKHOVEN - Jimmy Vasser
13. KALKHOVEN - Roberto Gonzalez
14. GENTILOZZI - Alex Tagliani
15. GENTILOZZI - Nelson Philippe
16. RUSSO - Michel Jourdain
17. RUSSO - AJ Allmendinger
18. WALKER - Michael Valiante or Jonathan Macri or Oriol Servia ?

Possibles:

19. WALKER - Ricardo Sperafico or Mario Haberfeld or Christian Fittipaldi or Townsend Bell ?
20. FITTIPALDI - Gaston Mazzacane or Mario Haberfeld or Christian Fittipaldi or Ricardo Sperafico or Oriol Servia ?

btw, updated picturesque version = http://www.planet.nl/~f1/cart2k4.htm - note: "confirmed" is in black ?!

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[jjspierx]

So thats 15 confirmed drivers by my count. As soon as Coyne announces his 2 cars, thats 17, and hopefully that will be soon. As for Walker, well I haven't heard anything from his camp in awhile I hope he is still planning on putting at least a car together for the season.

[thebear]

Originally posted by JohnSSC
if this concept catches on soon Ford will be buying Tauruses from itself to improve sales...

They practically do that now if you look at some of the `lease residuals'. :confused:

[JohnSSC]

Well I like music, but really can't play so I can't say I am any good at harping either. It just gives one the warm fuzzies to get criticized for making a simple statement.

So try this one on for size: I am very happy that the grid is forming up and I really hope that the contractual quotas are met for this race and throughout the season.

After reading so much in this Forum about the financial end and the relentless criticism of Pook, Rahal, Heitzler et al regarding THEIR manangement of the finances I think to be fair it is an honest question to posit here of the current owners of OWRS. All of the pre-season activity in OWRS revolved around bankruptcy proceedings, sale of assets, court challenges and potential suitors with bigger checkbooks - the Series, unfortuantely was literally spawned in a financial morass.

You see I would like the Series to stay solvent and not go the way of Beta video cassettes. Knowing that the Series went through what it went through to even get to this point, I am concerned that there may not be sufficient resources to get through this season.

I want the racing to start. More than that, I want the racing to continue. I am not going to apologize for caring enough about the series to ask: "How are they doing it?"

[thebear]

Originally posted by JohnSSC
I am not going to apologize for caring enough about the series to ask: "How are they doing it?"

As long as it isn't with "Smoke and Mirrors".

[JohnSSC]

The "smoke and mirrors" possibility is what scares me. I want the Series to be viable and have continuity.

Last pre-season the plan for Pookfare was widely hailed within the Forum as a great idea - something that would help with the grid until sponsor interest developed.

After the season ended and bankruptcy declared, Pook became a moron and Pookfare a bad idea. Now I am hearing the same support for "OWRS support" and am fervently hoping the result is not the same.

[jjspierx]

Without the "Pookfare" there wouldn't have been a 2003 season, so I don't see how it could be considered as a bad thing. Chris Pook had one of the toughest jobs in the world, and I think when he took the job he knew that there was a big chance it was already too late for the company, yet he took on the task anyways knowing that the series and his reputation were on the line. While I didn't agree with everything Pook did, I think overall he kept the series alive long enough to allow it to continue under a new banner and new ownership. Thats really all I could ask for.

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by jjspierx
Without the "Pookfare" there wouldn't have been a 2003 season, so I don't see how it could be considered as a bad thing.

I find it hard to believe, that we are suddenly under a new economic reality, that was not available last year. So you want me to believe that the amount of Pookfare was required last year, but not this year? I believed, and was vocal from early on last year, that the amount of Pookfare (not the principle), was grossly inflated from the necessary amounts to keep the series viable.

Anyway, I apologize for derailing the thread, but I'm not going to stand around and pass on something I believe is wrong.

As far as the grid, 17 cars is a major victory. Congrats to the OWRS guys in getting things this far, and hopefully they can lead the series back to health. I have been sceptical that they would get this far, and was wrong.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
I find it hard to believe, that we are suddenly under a new economic reality, that was not available last year. So you want me to believe that the amount of Pookfare was required last year, but not this year? I believed, and was vocal from early on last year, that the amount of Pookfare (not the principle), was grossly inflated from the necessary amounts to keep the series viable.

I didn't say, or impy that. I have no idea how much money OWRS is forking out to keep the series alive this year, and none of us will ever know. I'm pretty sure its more money than they are letting on about though. Whether its as much as Pook shelled out from CART's checkbook, well I have no idea, and its noones business but OWRS's. Not only that, but I don't really care, I don't like speculating about the business side of things, I just want to see the series grow again in the amount of teams/drivers, fans, and TV ratings. The rest will take care of itself. We have no control over the decisions that OWRS makes, so all I can do is hope they make the best decisions.

[zerO]

Update:

Latest from the Grapevine is that Kalkhoven is mulling over whether to add a third car to the PKVR stable for either Oriol Servia or Townsend Bell ?!

Here's the line-up we're going to see at Long Beach come April 16-18 (as I see it, ofcourse):

1. FORSYTHE - Paul Tracy
2. FORSYTHE - Rodolfo Lavin
3. FORSYTHE - Patrick Carpentier
4. NEWMAN/HAAS - Sebastien Bourdais
5. NEWMAN/HAAS - Bruno Junqueira
6. HERDEZ - Mario Dominguez
7. HERDEZ - Ryan Hunter-Reay
8. COYNE - Michael Keohane or Tomas Enge or Oriol Servia ?
9. COYNE - Mario Haberfeld or Jaime Melo or Geoff Boss or ?
10. BACHELART - Justin Wilson
11. BACHELART - Alex Sperafico
12. KALKHOVEN - Jimmy Vasser
13. KALKHOVEN - Roberto Gonzalez
14. GENTILOZZI - Alex Tagliani
15. GENTILOZZI - Nelson Philippe
16. RUSSO - Michel Jourdain
17. RUSSO - AJ Allmendinger
18. WALKER - Michael Valiante or Jonathan Macri or Oriol Servia ?

Possibles:

19. WALKER - Ricardo Sperafico or Mario Haberfeld or Christian Fittipaldi or Townsend Bell ?
20. FITTIPALDI - Gaston Mazzacane or Mario Haberfeld or Christian Fittipaldi or Ricardo Sperafico or Oriol Servia ?
21. KALKHOVEN - Oriol Servia or Townsend Bell ?

btw, for an updated picturesque version go to www.champcarfan.com and click on the "Line-up" thingy - note: "confirmed" is in black ?!

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[bella]

correction : i doubt thomas enge will drive for coyne, since he has confirmed in f3000 for this year. but i may be wrong.

[Snrub]

There were some articles about Pat being with Forsythe, but we haven't heard anything official. Seems to me like this would be a rather big announcment and be made very public. Can we be sure he is in fact going to be with Forsythe?

[Dov]

Originally posted by Snrub
There were some articles about Pat being with Forsythe, but we haven't heard anything official. Seems to me like this would be a rather big announcment and be made very public. Can we be sure he is in fact going to be with Forsythe?

http://www.forsythe-racing.com

Defending World Champion, Canadian hero Paul Tracy will drive the # 1 ‘Indeck Forsythe Racing’ car, Canadian Patrick Carpentier the # 32 ‘Indeck Forsythe Racing’ car and new team member from Mexico, Rodolfo Lavin in the # 3 ‘Corona Forsythe Racing’ entry.

[Snrub]

Thanks for proving me wrong.