ALMS 2012 Discussion

[joeb]

I have been trying to delay the start of this thread until the current string of races ends, but teams are starting to release plans for next season.

First of all, we likely won't know the ALMS schedule until Petit, that is the traditional release time. The schedule will likely look similar, except there is the rumored demise of Long Beach.

On the classes front, we have very little information from the series. We know that 2012 will be the 3rd and final year of the contract for having the GTC and LMPC classes. Although the LMPC's have had their homologation extended by the FIA/ACO, so I don't see that class leaving anytime soon. Will the ALMS open up the GTC class this season? We will have to wait and see.

In GT there have been few announcements. BMW has hinted at a return, and I think the RSRJag's have more in store. There was the announcement about Lotus Sport USA running the GTE Evora's, but past that, I can't remember any other announcements.

In the LMP2 ranks, will Level 5 return with their new HPD's, or take them to the WEC? Will anybody else join the fray, with a Riley perhaps?

Onto LMP1 where we have had a few announcements this week. Dyson said they will be back with their 2 current cars next year, and are working towards running a 3rd. Do they even have 3 Lola coupes? MuscleMilk are currently evaluating chassis/engine combinations, and are looking at Lola, Oreca, and HPD with Toyota, Cosworth, and HPD as possible engines. Did he say Cosworth? Other possible entries - Autocon, Intersport, DeltaWing?


As of now there seem to be a lot more questions regarding 2012 than there are answers. Hopefully some of the puzzle pieces will begin to fit by the time this season wraps up.

[Fogelhund]

Will it even be called the ALMS, or will it be IMSA?

It appears to me as though Robertson's are nearing the end of their run, just speculation on my part.

I would guess that Risi will not be back.

I see Patron leaving the series, as both a sponsor of the series, and of ESM, probably meaning ESM exits.

Lotus, Signature.... both end up being vaporware.

[Speed-King]

Ouch, GT plummeting into single digits and no Ferraris? That's pretty ugly...

[Jonerz]

Signature ends up being Vaporware, for sure. Signature I don't have my hopes up for. Core Autosport I anticipate moving to LMP2, as I believe that was their initial plan. Though, if they think that they might be the only car in LMP2, they might as well just stick with LMPC and screw the expense.

I don't know why Risi and Patron/ESM would leave. I think the disappointing media package that Risi complained about is the only factor between the two teams that would make one want to leave, and I think Giuseppe is far more interested in the IMSA/ALMS/ACO product than Grand-Am (or World Challenge? Don't know if that is on his radar).

Robertson's withdrawals have me thinking they are dusted.

Will be interesting to see if the ALMS continues as the ALMS, as Fogelhund has said. Certainly next year wouldn't be a bad time to start slowly implementing their own rules and call the series IMSA Sport Car or IMSA GT or something, opening up the rules for BIG stock block American V8s, the old Judd GV5.5 and such as I have desired and many have indicated are what attract the fans.

To the other side of the speculation argument, clearly with one more year of LMPC and with Dyson and Cytosport sticking around, it would be hard and complicated for IMSA to go GT-only, but I don't think that is something that is being thought of by anyone in Braselton at the moment.

So we shall see. Also, this is four, negative-speculation filled season discussion threads, 09, 10, 11, and 12.

Chris

[broadrun96]

Will hate to see ESM go anywhere, have always loved the Patron livery. Is Ed leaving GT racing (since his racing was the inspiration for the ALMS involvement), do they not feel the investment is worth it any longer, or just speculation so far?

[Fogelhund]

I heard fairly early in the season, that a big sponsor was going to be leaving the series at the end of the year. This came from an impecable source.

Go ahead, list the "big" sponsors.....

In my opinion, Scott Sharp's heart is in Open Wheel.... For the combined money they are spending in series sponsorship, and the cars, I believe they could run a Grand Am GT Ferrari, and an Indy Car. I think Scott will be saying that the exposure of running just Indy 500 alone is greater than the whole of the ALMS season, and Ed Brown would still get to have his fun racing.

Again, this is my speculation, based upon what I've been told on a sponsor leaving, so nothing hard in facts.

[fiend540]

Well one thing is for certain, you know Atherton will give us some big BS talk about how great the series is, how awesome the media package is and how they have a lot of new entries and sponsors coming into the series. They will follow this up by making a bunch of head scratching decisions that will further lead to the demise of the series.

[Fogelhund]

One thing for certain, it will be interesting to see what the State of the Union address has to say. A shame I won't be there this year, but it might be hard not to start laughing in the middle of it. It will be awfully hard to follow up on last years big announcements of the Riley LMP2 and West Racing.

Oh, and ALMS here is a hint... that WEC, unfriend, block... ok?

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Oh, and ALMS here is a hint... that WEC, unfriend, block... ok?

[arakis]

oh and why would risi exit?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by arakis

oh and why would risi exit?

Just a hunch... two of the new Ferraris in Grand Am will be run under the Ferrari of Ft.Lauderdale-Banner, but that's a dealership not a race team, I wouldn't be too surprised if they'd have the cars be run by someone else, and with Risi having a similar setup with Ferrari of Houston right now....?!

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Just a hunch... two of the new Ferraris in Grand Am will be run under the Ferrari of Ft.Lauderdale-Banner, but that's a dealership not a race team, I wouldn't be too surprised if they'd have the cars be run by someone else, and with Risi having a similar setup with Ferrari of Houston right now....?!

I am more under the impression that Giusepe Risi is more drawn towards Le Mans then toward grand am, what is possible is that he runs the grand am team that someone else would finance, and use those finances to run a ALMS/ Le mans programe.
after all he seems to be very proud and personaly invested into ferrari spirit and history, and historicly ferrari is a Le Mans racer.

I can't see him droping Le mans for grand am, it would be out of character. he seems like a person verry proud of his historical ferrari contacts.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by arakis

oh and why would risi exit?

Jonerz states why the don't believe that the ALMS is worth the investment anymore, and what Jonerz states is not speculation.

[HJJ]

Schedule growing by two rounds next year.

T.V. more same day coverage. It can't all that bad when a tape delayed race on network outdraws a live race on a cable "sports" network.

Patron stays. Ferrari's stay. GTC allows Ferrari's as well. Audi in GT2.

The 50th Daytona 24 will be big. But not as big as Sebring or PLM, no matter what Big Jim wants (not sure he can count). But when they go to Hoestead, more of the same (club racing crowds).

[joeb]

Originally Posted by HJJ

T.V. more same day coverage. It can't all that bad when a tape delayed race on network outdraws a live race on a cable "sports" network.

this is off topic but, I don't know what the real draw of the "old" big networks is anymore. Maybe it is just my personal tv viewing habits, but it seems like most people have cable/satellite access these days, and use the guide feature instead of just flipping between the 3-4 major networks. end rant.


If I recall the ESPN/ABC deal was for multiple years, not just this one. So we at least know what to expect on that front for next season. We will just have to see how the split between ESPN2 and ABC goes, and how long of a programming block they are willing to give up for sportscars.

Sebrings 60th running next season coincides with the opening of the NCAA basketball tournament, so that will be where the sports media is focused.

2012 Schedule
We have at least 2 confirmed dates:

Feb 8-9 Winter Test
Mar 14-17 Sebring

[Purist]

With the Le Mans Test Day on June 3rd, that gives more flexibility to fill the gap out more between Sebring and Le Mans itself.

Looking at the IndyCar schedule, I would think that there will be at least one more race between Long Beach and the 500. I don't think it will be an oval, so if it's in the States, well, I wonder...

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by joeb

this is off topic but, I don't know what the real draw of the "old" big networks is anymore. Maybe it is just my personal tv viewing habits, but it seems like most people have cable/satellite access these days, and use the guide feature instead of just flipping between the 3-4 major networks. end rant.

You gain the casual viewer. Easier to find.

[chernaudi]

And it seems, that just like the LMS and non-WEC related ACO rules sportscar series, for each bit of good news, we get a bit of bad news to balance it out.

The Good: Dyson and Cytosport will be back in the ALMS next year, with Dyson maybe running 3 cars and Butch is back at least until the end of the current season.

The Bad: Highcroft has layed off all but a couple of their employeers, and Robertson is scraping it to make it to PLM this year, which means that 2012 for them is uncertain to say the least.

That is the big issue with the ALMS and LMS following the ACO's model for so long--Audi and Peugeot left those respective series at the first feelers of the ILMC/WEC forming. I think that both series need to stake a claim and run to their take on the ACO's rules by keeping their rules similar enough to allow their cars to run at LM, but they need to make their own identity to survive in their current format long term.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

My Predictions:

IMSA: Continues to stay in bed with the ACO.

Signature: Is this even worth predicting?? What a joke, and these guys were angry when Kjos/Murphy called them out. However, it seems he (Kjos) was right all along. No Chance

Falken Tire becomes a powerhouse, championship contender in the ALMS GT class. Fights BMW and Corvette in a hard fought championship battle.

Risi: leaves and runs Ferrari of Ft Lauderdale as Speed King suggested. Still makes a trip to Le Mans and other WEC rounds under the banner of Luxury Racing.

Patron/ESM: Stays, but runs 1 car effort with Brown and another driver, Sharp runs Indianapolis.

Robertson: Sadly, dead, but I believe Dick Barbour will have a program in the series in LMPC or GTC, with the Robertsons possibly involved.

Sebring a huge event and has one of the best races in years, but Petit is dropped from the WEC/ILMC schedule and is a disaster with low attendance, low numbers and an LMPC car winning overall

GTC: More Porsche club spec racing.

Butch: Returns full time for Dyson in a third car.

Muscle Milk: Switches to Grand Am in 2012, Luhr/Graf contend for DP championship.

Steven Kane: Along with Humaid, wins multiple races in 2012, often beating their sister team with Smith and Dyson driving.

Lotus with Ian Dawson:

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Risi: leaves and runs Ferrari of Ft Lauderdale as Speed King suggested. Still makes a trip to Le Mans and other WEC rounds under the banner of Luxury Racing.

Ferrari of Houston is Giuseppe's dealership. He knows people in the Ferrari dealer network, and if he still isn't involved in running the dealer network and importation of Ferraris and Maseratis to North America he remains well connected there.

Thus, running Ferrari of Ft. Lauterdale's program seems possible, and he has done that in the past (Ferrari/Maserati of Washington I believe was Risi-run, could be wrong). But I believe he prefers to own the cars and have full control of his programs and have dealerships and partners pay him for the exposure his program brings them - that has been the case since '06 anyway.

Chris

[arakis]

plus risi leaving would mean ALMS gt would become BMW corvette bore fest

you guys are asuming Risi will exit ALMS on bad asumptions.
1st.
Risi disatisfied wiht the media packige,
name one team that isn't.
They are only the only team that had any guts to call ALMS out on it, but everyone knows thats how the whole field is fealing, so if everyone else is stayiing so will risi.

2nd
is even worse, Scuderia of Ft.Loterdale needs someone to race their car, so you asume they are gonna take Risi? there are plenty of teams with ferrari experience in the US. remanents of the Tafel racing, remanents of peterson/white lightning, ESM, and scuderia of Washington (witch btw was not run by Risi), IIRC Dale white wanted to do a ferrari Grand am project a few years ago...

[rich07]

Not knowing the full capabilities i.e manpower, could Risi do both? Run the Grand Am programme which in turn funds the ALMS programme and Risi possibly return to Le Mans? Im sure Ferrari would be disappointed if Risi left ALMS too.

Hope ESM dont leave also, I know Sharp has his heart in Indycars but it would be a shame to see drivers like Overbeek and Cosmo without a drive. GT wouldnt be the same without a Ferrari, I cant really see it happen.

Have heard nothing of Flying Lizards plans for next year, still early but.

[arakis]

if someone else was paying they could do both, I don't know about the drivers if there are any grand am scheadule alms clashes, they could do technical preprations for the Grand Am team, and do full ALMS, but I just don't see Guiseppe abandoning ALMS for anything else, either he will pull out of racing completly because of financial reasons and not race anywere.

current manpower is tailored for current team needs, but they could easily hire more people if somene else was paying.

Although If I think about it, Ft.loterdale would probably have more luck coooperating with some european team tha has GT3 experience, because the Grand Am car is basicly a 458 GT3 without traction control and ABS

[KA]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Lotus with Ian Dawson:

It'll all hinge on who's paying the bills and whether there's enough money to do it properly. The Ascari and original Taurus Lolas a few years back were both fairly competent efforts, until Dawson started tilting at windmills with the attempt to develop a diesel engine for the Lola, and then the Eco/Libra Radical fiasco....
If Lotus do some decent development work over the winter, and can built some pace into the basic Evora package, and whoever's backing this has put together the budget to resource it properly, hire decent drivers etc, then it might be OK.
If not, and it's another case of Dawson trying to run the car on a shoestring, with race-by-race rentadriver deals, or trying to run it on alternative fuels then yes, were looking at Dawson Radical v2, and you'll hardly ever see it....

[KA]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

That is the big issue with the ALMS and LMS following the ACO's model for so long--Audi and Peugeot left those respective series at the first feelers of the ILMC/WEC forming. I think that both series need to stake a claim and run to their take on the ACO's rules by keeping their rules similar enough to allow their cars to run at LM, but they need to make their own identity to survive in their current format long term.

Perhaps one of the key issues facing both once they separate from the ILMC & Peugeot/Audi factory involvement is being able to hang on to the privateer teams in their LMP classes. LMS has usually been fairly good at that so far (though LMP1 has been weak this year, LMP2 entry numbers have held up, and I've seen suggestions that at least one of the FLM teams is looking towards LMP2 next year).

ALMS' record on this however is pretty weak....they really need to look urgently at what needs to be done to make ALMS commercially and financially attractive for independent LMP teams, so that either some of the LMPC teams step up, or teams outside the ALMS start to see it as a viable option again.