Jacques (Custer) Villeneuve's Last Stand

[Valve Bounce]

"Every driver wants to be in a winning team and Ferrari are the winning team at the moment," Villeneuve was quoted as saying on the BBC. "If I had the chance to drive for Ferrari one day it would certainly be a very interesting offer. But it would depend if Michael was still there or not. I would not join a team if I was going to be told to make way for Michael at some stage."

When one is surrounded, outnumbered 20 to 1, and the enemy are shooting live bullets, it's hardly a good time to jump on a soapbox and start blowing one's trumpet.

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[PoweredByHonda]

And I suppose when one wants to win championships, he simply gets a whole team around him and makes sure the other driver get no support and will always move over for him even with a 30 point lead?

[PoweredByHonda]

Come on, Villeneuve is clearly a superior driver stuck in a . And if performances like that which we say in Austria doesn't get him a top drive next year, then the whole paddock is filled with ignorant If JV was in a Mclaren instead of DC, he'd be winning championships instead of whining and coming second all the time.

Sorry about the language, I'm just really ****ed off at all the JV bashing lately. The guy's the only other world champion on the grid right now, and the only WDC that won his championship fairly and squarely.

And getting snubbed by the top teams and some members lately really annoys me. The guy's won 13 races, a WDC in his second season. He's a damn good driver and I'd like to see him drivin a Ferrari like his dad once did and givin it that no bull attitude and not the whining, b&tching attitude that some other drivers are exhibiting.

Give him some respect
(Sorry for the second post, computer crashed.)

[I've made some edits due to bad language. Attempts to avoid the autocensor are not permitted. R. ]

[Glen]

I think a lot more people would stand up for JV if he was proving his pedigree as a former WDC by comprehensively and consistently beating Olivier Panis. Regardless of the issue of equal treatment I still think there is a big difference between the way that JV has coped with his team's poor performance and the way that someone like MSch would be treating it. All the time that JV is reluctant to test and put in the extra effort fans will tend to think less of him.

Agree that Austria was a great drive... but he needs one of those very fortnight, together with consistent qualifying and testing work

[f1manoz]

JV has had some great performances in the BAR since he joined the team in 1999 but, as in most sports, you are only as good as your last performance.

More often that not of late JV has not consistently been beating his team-mate Olivier Panis.

WDC or not, a driver the calibre of JV should be beating him.

[koby]

If JV really wants to win another WDC rather than earn bucket loads of dollars like he does now - why does he not offer his services for free to a top team,- that's how Senna got his toes into a Williams when Mansell was arguing about the size of the hotel suites on his contract.

[zealot]

Why in the world should JV offer his services for free? When Senna got into a Williams, he had loads of skill but little else. JV is the only driver on the grid to have earned a world championship - and he should be paid like it.

As for beating Panis, do you think it makes that big of difference to JV whether he comes in 12th or 16th in a given race?

And Glen, how do you thing MSchu would handle being in JV's shoes? He'd whine, make excuses, and make Panis slow down if he did beat him. JV (and maybe JPM) is the only driver who has the guts to challenge MSchu on and off the track, and for that alone he should be appreciated and applauded. Unfortunately, his skills are more suited to the cars of 25 years ago and not todays point and shoot, radio-controlled machines.

[SolemHill]

Right there with you on the driving skills bit about JV, but the bad luck there is that shumie has shown he can drive the rubber off old tubs that handle like railway carriages....bit of a non starter as an argument really....but the good argument is JV would win if the car could. But then I belong to the school of thought that says he isn't developing the car with team enough to get out of this rut he's in.

[Glen]

Originally posted by zealot
And Glen, how do you thing MSchu would handle being in JV's shoes? He'd whine, make excuses, and make Panis slow down if he did beat him. JV (and maybe JPM) is the only driver who has the guts to challenge MSchu on and off the track, and for that alone he should be appreciated and applauded. Unfortunately, his skills are more suited to the cars of 25 years ago and not todays point and shoot, radio-controlled machines.

Whining and making excuses are traits that one could justifiably accuse MSch of - but not for more than about half a season. Like it or not, he does get results. I cannot see season after season slipping away without progress under his leadership - by now he would have pulled a tighter team around him.

[Bononi]

Usually when a driver stands up and talk, is because his lack of results. JV and Irvine are the living proof to that.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by zealot
As for beating Panis, do you think it makes that big of difference to JV whether he comes in 12th or 16th in a given race?

Well, it should. If he ever wants to renegotiate from a position of power, the only comparison he can make is to the people around him in similarly capable cars. I'm a JV fan, but his dedication to building the team leaves something to be desired. The last time he decisively came out on top in this, he won the WDC and beat Schumacher. Since then, he's been comfortable in knowing that the car wasn't up to snuff and he could be best of the rest whilst McLaren and Ferrari ran away.

Originally posted by zealot
And Glen, how do you thing MSchu would handle being in JV's shoes?

He'd bring in Brawn and Byrne! Oh, and he'd run his competitors off the road.

[Liz]

Jacques has stated in today's Toronto Sun that unlike Irvine, he has not lost sight of the plot.

Quote: When asked if being among the highest paid drivers was important, Villeneuve responded, "What's important is to be considered among the top drivers and to do that you have to win races. "

Incidentally, the photograph with the nice little interview shows plainly that Hair Club for Men has a new customer.

[Bononi]

I like JV, but I don't think it's worth talking about going to Ferrari or not. Right now, if he leaves BAR, he can be nowhere..

[EERO]

To be blunt. I think Jacques is a brilliant driver, but little better than Panis, who is enourmously talented AND a good Tester.

Quite simply, there aren't enough good seats to go around and Jacques is just one of many deserving drivers who will NEVER again be in a race-winning seat.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by EERO
Jacques is just one of many deserving drivers who will NEVER again be in a race-winning seat.

to be perfectly honest, what has Jacques done since joining BAR to warrent him being taken on by a top team? and the only possible top team seat may be DC's, in a car that may need a bit of developing to get back to the top, and development wouldn't appear to be one of Jacques strong points!

[neilap]

I feel that just as cars have their limits so do the drivers. If the cars limit is lower that that of the driver then he can not fully utilize all his skills. OP and JV are close for this reason. In a better car JV's driving style and aggression would consistently put him ahead of OP.
I would not count BAR out. They may not look good now but neither did Renault/Benneton last year.
JV, however, does get paid too much to lose races. If the car cant deliver they do not need a top driver, that demands top pay. If I was JV I would go after either RS's or DC's seat. I see JB and JPM though next year.

[Valve Bounce]

My point is that JV is in no position to start making stipulations publicly about what he will not put up with if he is offered a position in the top team. Sure, he can discuss that privately with Ferrari if there are any negotiations, but to come straight out and make waves before he is even considered is rather premature in possibly off putting for any team manager.
I would be the first to admit that if we put Jacques into a Ferrari, Williams, McLaren or Renault, he would be visiting the podium regularly. But he is not helping himself by making stipulations in the media of what a team manager might expect of him.
Yes!! I do believe that there could be a position for a top driver in McLaren or Renault. Let's put it this way: if MSch said he wanted to drive for Williams, Renault, or McLaren next year, I think that the team managers there would simply kick one of their drivers out for him. Why not Jacques? Forgetting about team orders for the moment, MSch does all the PR required, he tests with great enthusiasm, and he is a bloody good driver. If Jacques went up to Frank or Ron or Flab and declared his availability, the first thing these guys would think is what problems this guy would bring to the team, rather than his ability to win. What I am trying to say is that Jacques' mouth is probably his own worse enemy.

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[freud]

Sorry guys, but I have a few fundamental differences with regards to the general thinking here.

First of all.. let us not forget the fact that Jacques Villeneuve is the youngest (and probably the only, if I am correct) driver in history of Motor Sports to win the most coveted racing titles on both side of the atlantic alongwith the Indy 500...

Secondly, I perfectly understand that many people dont like Jacques simply because he's snooty, or carries a 'I dont give a damn' attitude, or has an attitude bigger than his boots. To be honest with you, I think Jacques Villeneuve grew up in an environment that was glamorous, famous yet ironic. Unlike Mr. Michael Schumacher (who admitted that his family was so poor when he was a child that at one moment they were living on Michael's Kart returns) Jacques was brought up in all the luxuries of the world. He had the money, the power to lead a happy and fulfilling life and remain away from the dangers of the racing world. Certainly, unlike some of the so called 'greats', Jacques joined the world of racing for satisfaction of a personal desire.... and to me the desire was 'to take the name of his father 'Villeneuve' o record books'. Jacques wanted to win because of his father... he wanted to achieve what his father, very ironically, couldnt achieve and that brought him into the cutthroat world of racing.

Thirdly... Alongwith Mika Hakkinen and Juan Pablo Montoya, Jacques is a NATURAL. Unlike other drivers who are out there sweating in heat for hours circling the tracks getting the right set-up, Jacques spends minimum time on testing yet produces performance which can be compared against any driver. I was reading the amount of time drivers spend testing cars and Jacques was down at the bottom of the list. He has the genes of Gilles and no wonder it shows in his style. Watch the 1997 GP at Jerez... watch it carefully. How Jacques won that race was nothing less than a 'miracle'. And his driving was probably the best I have seen in the 90s... breaking late yet with such precision that the traction of the wheels is perfectly balanced to an inch. As I remember a comment by James Allen : "It was Gilles Villeneuve that day driving that Williams"

Fourthly... Lets not compare Jacques with Olivier Panis. I mean to say that Olivier is great... but as someone else said before, when the time will come, Jacques will annhilate him. He destroyed HHF and made Williams drop Hill. That shows how good Jacques is.

Fifth... Dont forget that Frank Williams wanted to keep Jacques... it was JAcques' manager Craig Pollock who created a peice of **** metal born out of garbage dump called BAR. And that decision by JAcques to leave Williams and join BAR cost him dearly. Now Jacques is in a bad position because:

1. HE himself rejected Williams, so Williams will never take him again.

2. He has a personal feud with Ron Dennis, though in paddock people still think that Jacques Villeneuve can drive for Mclarens in 2003 if Uncle Bernie mediate.

3. Ferrari - As we all know that Michael Schumcaher just 'hates' competiton. Anything else is needless to say.

So my point is that Jacques is looking bad shape today but the fact is that he, alongwith Montoya, is a real balls-out racer... the kind of guy that would've won that Brazilian GP of 2002 had he been in place of Ralf. Formula one needs Jacques Villeneuve simply because of his attitude and his personality. And as far as his driving skills are concerned, there is NO question mark at all. He has won it all and he doesnt need to prove it to anyone.

In the end, its a guy named Craig Pollock whose stupid decision to make a **** peice of metal called BAR destroyed JV's years of racing. I think the position JV is in now, it would be best for him to leave F1 and drive for a frontline team in CART. He is just so 'politically incorrect' to be a f1 star again. And in CART he can win a few titles too..

[paul-collins]

Interesting spin on his low testing times, freud. The problem is, lack of track time means lack of feedback to engineers. Since BAR is so far back, they need JV to test and tell them how their tweaks change the car. He may be my favourite in F1, but he's not even my favourite Canadian driver overall. (See my sig)

(I know, Liz. But try to meet him next week. He is a pussycat.)

[PoweredByHonda]

All i've gotta say freud, is that I agree with you compeletly, well except for the bit about goin to cart. I do wish he could goto a team with a competitive car.

I'm sure if JV could do it all over again, he'd have went to Mclaren in 99, but with hindsight being 20/20 I guess he's stuck at BAR.

And I really don't know where he could go if he wants to leave BAR. Most of the top seats are taken up by either cheats, or crybabies and not real racers. (cept JPM and Kimi, and Button)

[Valve Bounce]

Personally, I'd like to see Jacques with Renault next year.

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[Liz]

Now that is a scary team to think about. Button and Jacques. A rolling demo derby to be sure!

freud, I wonder where your excellent psychoanalysis of Jacques found any desire to emulate his father or go him one better to do him honour? Everything I have seen and heard in that regard seems to say that Jacques resists being compared to his father and indeed he he has gone so far as to not join the Drivers' Association because it was something his father was large in.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I just wonder where you found this interesting point of view.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Liz
Now that is a scary team to think about. Button and Jacques. A rolling demo derby to be sure!

freud, I wonder where your excellent psychoanalysis of Jacques found any desire to emulate his father or go him one better to do him honour? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I just wonder where you found this interesting point of view.

He heard it during a couch session, naturally But he obviously cannot divulge who he got it from because of Doctor - Patient confidentiality. :confused: :confused:

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[Mr V]

Originally posted by freud

Fourthly... Lets not compare Jacques with Olivier Panis. I mean to say that Olivier is great... but as someone else said before, when the time will come, Jacques will annhilate him.

if you can't compare him to Panis, who can you compare him to? the thing is, it's no good waiting for the time to come (i expect you mean a good car to arrive?) before annhilating him, Jacques has to be doing it now, and at virtually every race. we all know about Ron and Jacques dislike for one another, but Ron does think highly of Panis , now, when the time comes to replace one of his drivers, who's he going to look at? Panis, a guy he likes and respects who'll proberbly cost him $4 million per year, or Jacques, a guy who he can't stand, who won't put in the sponsership days and hasn't done much more than Panis dispite wanting about $10 - $12 million? i know who i'd choose!

the only other top line seat, Renault, he blew out in the hope that the BAR will get better, i don't expect Flav to come knocking again too quickly either!

Originally posted by freud

Watch the 1997 GP at Jerez... watch it carefully. How Jacques won that race was nothing less than a 'miracle'.

????????.............sorry Freud but didn't Mika win that race? (with a little help from his friends!)

[I've only edited the top quote. R.]

[calais]

personally i hope this expensive hasbeen retires!!!!!