Jordan and BAR

[billaboy]

It's quite possible that Jordan and BAR (more so Jordan) with in the next 2 years or so will no longer be in F1 due to $$ problems. So what kind or grid is that gonna be? 18 cars, what kind of racing is that? I dont see any other cars or manufactures entering the sport other than someone maybe buying Sauber. F1 could be getting more boring by the day!

[TeddyG]

I think BAR leaving will have a lot to do with how they perform next year if they are not really in the hunt by then I think somebody will pull the plug or Honda will take over the team.

Jordan?...well they need some serious help supposedly Merc engines next year maybe that will give them a boost?

[billaboy]

For some reason I thought there was 11 teams x 2 =22-4=18 , don't really know why I thought that. Sorry.

[Osella]

I believe Ferrari, McLaren and Williams have already promised the FIA extra cars to keep the numbers up should the need arise. And Renault already bring three to every race.
What we really need, of course, is a situation, as in the past, where any team could aspire to graduate to the top level. It still strikes me as being ludicrous that the best F3 and F3000 or Sportscar teams can no longer dream of making it to F1. Most of the present teams would have failed to make it in under the current rules!

[BootsOntheSide]

Personally I'd much prefer to see teams such as Super Nova, Arden, Rocketsports etc moving up to F1 than have yet more McLarens and Ferraris. Some sort of second division for mnon-works teams, eigable for main championship points as well of course, plus the cost-cutting rules that are coming in, might just be the solution. As Osella says, Williams were on teh breadline for years, Jordan likewise, and Minardi wouldn't've got in under the current situation, nor would classic teams like Tyrrell, brabham, Lotus, BRM...

[BSchneiderFan]

Certainly there are now near-insuperable barriers to new teams joining the F1 circus. I believe that the FIA has now waived the enormous deposit which was once required to be paid, but where are the new teams? The American, Dan Gurney-led team now seems to have disappeared from view. Any news on the Oliver Behring-owned German team which, we were told, would be on the grid at Albert Park in 2004?

[Stephen Green]

Read Eerco's thread, the truth behind the fighting fund before answering here.

[Wasp]

Unfortunately, F1 is looking like it might revert to 6 or 7 manufacturer teams with 3 cars each. Jordan, Sauber and Minardi simply don't have enough money to keep running.

There are arguments for an against 3 car teams. It takes the exitement out of the WCC with less teams competing, however, it might make the races more exiting with more drivers fighting it out in the top spots. Instead of 6 cars being able to compete to win (Ferrari, Williams and Mac) there will be 9. Add the competitive Renault to the mix and you have 12 cars that are capable of being on the podium at any time.

Personally, I don't mind if there are less teams and 3 cars in each team. I hate seeing Minardi, Jordan and Sauber peddle around at the back - it just makes me feel horrible to see people working so hard and knowing that they will never be able to win.

[shiny side up!]

Everyone has to start somewhere... and it's usually "peddling around at the back". From drivers to mechanics to team principals, you don't just jump into F1 (or anything else) straight away and beat the rest of the world... Minardi, Jordan, Sauber, Etc, all perform a necessary function. I would hate to see them go... especially if 3 car teams meant non-points scoring cars in the race or some teams running 3 while others run 2...

[Osella]

We need all flavours of F1 team for the sport to prosper. And people used to queue up to drive for, design, and work for the 'second division' teams.

One way to 'protect' the current teams would be to award them the right to supply year-old cars; of course you could still make your own/ modify heavily a year-old one.

And Jordans do actually win, once in a blue moon!

[neilap]

When I heard Honda was going to drop one of its teams I was hoping it was BAR. The team does not excite me at all. I feel if the relationship has worked with Jordan that the team would be much better off now. Anyway, Honda says they are in F1 to win and wont leave before they do. So maybe BAR will the in F1 for a LONG time!!

I dont care much for Minardi but I hope Jordan gets a good engine deal. Eddie is not willing to enter a partnership so he may never get a real works deal but even used Merc. motors should keep him in it.

[jetsetter]

The only problem i see in each team having three cars is in Ferrari's case we'll have two cars instead of one following Schumacher around unable to win the race, on the subject of privateers joining the series why not have a privateers cup for them to race for at each G.P. as well as championship points, the winning privateer at each race can join the top three on the podium while the leading privateer at the end of the series is crowned privateer champion. Having the chance of winning something may encourage privateer teams to either stay in or join the championship.

[Testure]

I think Sauber's arrangement with Ferrari is the only one that's workable for a private team right now. Presumably, Jordan are thinking the same thing; just having engines isn't enough. You need manufacturer support for your whole team, from chassis to drivers - look at Minardi with their (perfectly decent) Cosworth engines at the moment. Only a manufacturer can provide the kind of resources that building a decent F1 team needs.

Heidfeld and Firman at Jordan-Ilmor next year, then

[Smokey 6 litre]

i think the situation should be that a team can run a single car if they wish and the larger teams can run as many as they like (or can afford) that way large grids could be ensured with a variation of teams, designs, and liveries.

[Glen]

The thing is, none of the teams, top or otherwise, actually want to run a third car. Estimated costs of $ 20 to 30 million are not to be taken lightly and the benefits would be minimal.

[Stephen Green]

For a start the grid is limited to 24 cars or 12 teams. If a team runs a third car it's not eligible for championship points either as a constructor or in the WDC so, absolutely no incentive to run more than two cars. That's without mentioning the additional costs as mentioned above!

[Dutton]

To my mind, for years, it has seemed pretty clear that Honda are going to take over BAR when the whole tobacco sponsorship ban thing comes in (at latest).

[EERO]

Stephen, i think they'd have to rewrite the rules on points if the number of teams dipped below ten.

Glen, consider the expense incurred by McLaren, Williams and Ferari with the full-ytime test teams they run. How much more expensive would itbe to bring Wurz, Gene, and Massa or Badoer, with their cars to a Gp rttrather than sending them to Valencia or Barcelona?

[Glen]

Originally posted by EERO
Glen, consider the expense incurred by McLaren, Williams and Ferari with the full-ytime test teams they run. How much more expensive would it be to bring Wurz, Gene, and Massa or Badoer, with their cars to a Gp rttrather than sending them to Valencia or Barcelona?

They'd never cut back testing in favour of racing for no points. The amount of running involved in a race weekend is tiny compared to a dedicated test schedule. Renault and Jaguar might be persuaded, since they already have chosen to limit testing in favour of doing more during the race weekend.

[Dutton]

Well, if cost for no points is the issue......... Why could the FIA (is it them, or the Concorde which would deal with this - a mix of both, probably) not just pay more money to the teams depending on their results with the third car?

[garagegirl]

I think f1 is getting boring *yawns* so i like dutton's idea.

do they still do that thing where they used to give cash prizes to the winner of gp's? i remember reading about them in a book on f1 in 1975. if they do i think the big teams should donate the prize funds to the smaller teams, or save the money to create a new team

[Smokey 6 litre]

With all the information i discoved while reading the Stodard interview IF it does drop that low the top teams will have to supply non-point scoring cars, so maybe the fighting fund will need to be revitalised.
They should allow teams to run only 1 car, that way there will be many more teams on the grid, with a wider variation of designs and liveries.
The big teams will still run 2 cars but i think on the whole it will be a lot better, Stodard said that the PS03 hasn't been developed because they don't have the money, IF they only had to run 1 car they could develop it into a very competative team.

[BertMk2]

If Minardi (or whoever) only ran one car they'd get less sponsorship money so the amount available for development wouldn't increase (it may actually decrease).

Something needs to be done though - F1 needs the privateer teams (and some new teams wouldn't go amiss either). The idea of works teams supplying complete chassis to privateers is a step in the right direction (providing the cost can be kept down) but it does bring up more legal issues (liability in the case of accidents due to design flaws etc). It would be great if next year McLaren ran the MP4/18 or 19 and Jordan ran with the MP4/17 in the B&H livery (not gonna happen but it's a great idea).