"Snaps Knicker Elastic!"

[Peter Mallett]

It was a quote from Jeremy Clarkson on the launch of the Ford Probe. He reckoned the phenomenn would happen at 100 yards.

So, Ford had the Capri and canned it after selling around 2 million of them. Then they got the Probe to replace it. We've had the Cougar but that was never touted as the Capri replacement but that was what it was.

Now we've got a proposal called Visos(?) which Ford are saying is the Capri replacement.

Why not just bury the Capri and bring something out which doesn't try to rely on an outdated (but fun) concept?

[Truckosaurus]

Is the concept outdated though? Making a decent looking coupe on a saloon 'chassis' should be a money spinner. Ford almost succeeded with the Puma and Audi have done v well with the TT (little more than a tarted up Golf).

[Peter Mallett]

Well the TT is just a two seater. This is supposed to be a four seater. So I see a bit of a difference in that respect.

[garcon]

In some senses the 2+2 mainstream coupé is a bit of a dated concept. I dunno whether that's because there's no choice in that sector or the other way round...

Many people have either gone smaller (MX-5 roadster, Ford Puma) or would rather go for a bottom end premium marque (3 series?) than something like the Cougar. To a degree, Vauxhall have had success with the Astra Coupé, helped by BTCC glory. It'll be interesting if the Monaro comes to these shores.

[Logrence]

Mercedes, BMW, Alfa and Ferrari ALL have 2+2 coupes on the way in the next 4/5 years - hardly outdated and I have to say all of them look the gad's nads.

[garcon]

Not exactly mainstream though are they?

Where's the current day equivalent of the Capri, the Manta, the Monza?

[Neil C]

Ford has been convinced they can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse ever since they took a Ford Falcon platform and bolted a sporty 2+2 box to it, and called it Mustang.

In the US, anyway, the Probe was supposed to replace the 'stang, but it went over about as well as New Coke did as a replacement for Coca Cola. Like Coke, they ended up selling both products simutaneously.

I'm not familiar with most of the models you mention here, but the concept can work, such as using the same platform for the Lincoln LS, Jag S-type and now, the coming '05 Mustang.

Peter, your thread title gave me hope that I'd be able to tell my story about how we used the elastic from the waistband of my friends underwear to replace the throttle return spring on a Dodge Dart slant 6. Maybe another time.

[Mal]

Originally posted by garcon
Not exactly mainstream though are they?

Where's the current day equivalent of the Capri, the Manta, the Monza?

BMW 3 series coupe is pretty close and mainstream as is the Celica and the Hyundai Coupe.

[garcon]

Funnily enough they came to mind when I was trying to think of them.

*Hmm. Bit of a Forrest Gump moment there...*

On the basis of units shifted at least, the 3 series IS mainstream, yes. It truly cracks me up to imagine the sheer indignant horror on the face of your typical 3 series owner when told their beloved BMW is mainstream!

[Alpina]

And what exactly is your typical 3 series owner?

[garcon]

Well, let me amend that to your typical Wilmslow 3 series owner .

They've bought a 3 series because they think it sets them apart from 'the rest', because it's a 'premium' model that shows everyone they've got a quid or two. This conveniently ignores the fact that in the Wilmslow area there are roughly 5 times as many 3 series Beemers than any other model of car.

The kind of 3 series owner I'm thinking of has only bought it as a status symbol and is utterly oblivious of the qualities of the car itself (which is, without question, the best compact saloon on the market). They're also oblivious of the relative capabilities of the model range and genuinely believe their 318i is just as fast as an M3. AND they're equally oblivious of everything around them on the road and any notion of driving courtesy.

In short, they typify the shallow, self-obsessed posing s that make Wilmslow such a pleasant place to live...

Yes, I probably ought to move, but the crime rate is next to zero which means it's one of the few places I can afford to insure my Scooby!

[Logrence]

Who wants a mainstream coupe?

It's like drinking Nescafe and calling yourself a coffee connoisseur...Capri? Manta? Monza? The motoring equivalents of instant brew.

[Peter Mallett]

The point of the Capri and in the US the Mustang was that they brought "class" qualities to the masses. There's no real need for that anymore and the concept of the single floorpan multiple style is old hat now.

So IMHO I don't see a need for a "Capri" type of vehicle. Now if they deliver an out and out muscle car then that would be different.

[Mal]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
The point of the Capri and in the US the Mustang was that they brought "class" qualities to the masses.

And isnt that just what the 3 series does today!

[garcon]

The 3 series 2 door isn't really a coupé though is it. It's just a 2 door saloon. Might aswell have the 2 extra doors...

[Mal]

You'd better take that argument up to the sportscar forum where they are trying to argue that the M3 is a real 'GT' let alone a coupe.

I think though that the 3 series coupe is in the same vein as the Capri and the Manta in that it is produced for people who can afford the mainstream car but need the image.

[Alpina]

Image be blowed. What options do you have if you want a sporty RWD?

[Logrence]

But image is everything.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Mal
And isnt that just what the 3 series does today!

I've thought about that and the answer is a resounding no.

The price is the problem. The Capri could be made to fit the budget of a family man. The Beemer only fits the budget of the successful family man. Y'see the difference?

And that's why the "Capri" concept fails today IMO.

[Logrence]

But if you were trying to sell a retro car that fits the intentions of the first car then the Mini, Beetle, VW Camper and Citroen Pluriel cars would be completely unsuccessful and unpopular.

A 'Capri' concept would be aimed at someone successful who wants to buy in cool and sophistication through this cult image.

[Peter Mallett]

I think the point is they're not trying to sell a retro car. As I said the old Capri concept was provide a basic car and loads of add on packs to fit the buyer's budget. To that extent you could get a base 1300 model, put the GTXL pack on it and you got loads of bells and whistles but no power.

Or you could buy the 2.0l and put the GTXLR package on it which included better seats, tacho, different gearing etc.

The Beemer (to use our comparison) doesn't have that flexibility. You have to buy the top of the range model to get all the extras. You can't start with an 1800 and put the add ons into it. (I stand to be corrected here).

But maybe we've got past that anyway and we don't need the Capri/Mustang facility.

[Mal]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I've thought about that and the answer is a resounding no.

The price is the problem. The Capri could be made to fit the budget of a family man. The Beemer only fits the budget of the successful family man. Y'see the difference?

And that's why the "Capri" concept fails today IMO.

The BMW 3 series coupe (base models) is a coupe that is sold for slightly more than a mid range Mondeo and is aimed squarely at someone who wants an ego boost in that market as was the Capri. As you say people have changed in 30 years as has the average persons wealth and therefore to me the 3 series is as close as we get now to the Capri concept in the 70's.

[Peter Mallett]

I agree with you. Mind you anybody who thinks that a BMW is any kind of status symbol is somewhat last century IMO.

[Mal]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I agree with you. Mind you anybody who thinks that a BMW is any kind of status symbol is somewhat last century IMO.

Yes, I got rid of my M3 in '98 and havent had another BMW since.

Also that backs up my argument as when was a capri a status symbol

[Peter Mallett]

That's exactly the point. That's why I don't think the concept works anymore. So we agree then?