UK for '08?

[norman-normal]

www.crash.net/news_view~cid~3~id~148021.htm
90% Probable 2 more races in EU

[BootsOntheSide]

I think they should wait and see how well Zolder and Assen go before talking about holding more.

[MrTTraces]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

I think they should wait and see how well Zolder and Assen go before talking about holding more.

I agree but it would be nice to see um back at the rock

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by MrTTraces

I agree but it would be nice to see um back at the rock

I think IRL would do better there? Champcar have given up on ovals.Unfortunately American series have a poor history in UK.Brands & Silverstone 1978,Rockinham 2001,Brands2003? never repeated-mostly due to poor crowds I believe?

[gomick]

was the brands hatch round in 03 a failure crowd wise?

[Suze]

No gomick, not at all - was really busy from what I recall and had a good support package too.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Rob29

I think IRL would do better there? Champcar have given up on ovals.Unfortunately American series have a poor history in UK.Brands & Silverstone 1978,Rockinham 2001,Brands2003? never repeated-mostly due to poor crowds I believe?

Could have sworn they ran at Rockinham in 2002 aswell

[Stephen Green]

It was the restructuring of Champ Car which prevented the return to Brands Hatch the following year. I believe it was originally to have been a 5 year deal to run there.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I appreciate that champcar would probably want the appeal of London and would look at Brands Hatch not to mention Jonathon Palmers close ties.

But in terms of the actual racing I'd have thought that Donington or Silverstone's International circuit would be better.

[Yannick]

Champ Cars at Donington could indeed be exiting to watch. Especially, if it rains ;-)

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Could have sworn they ran at Rockingham in 2002 aswell

They did. Franchitti won, and for a time both Brits (Franchitti & Manning, in the RAC Team St.George car) were running 1-2 quite popularly.

Rockingham was far better for Champcars than Brands.

Unfortunately, in it's current incarnation - it won't be going back to the Rock. Hopefully a fuller circuit will pick up Champcar if it does come back, Brands was a bit tedious for such high powered single seaters.

[Purist]

The reason Brands wasn't as good in 2003 was that it was only the Indy circuit that was used. With A1GP and WSBK, and the assumed upgrades that the circuit has seen since 2003, I would think the Brands Hatch GP circuit would now be suitable for CART (yes, I still use the old acronym).

[Julio]

I agree, the Brands GP loop would be great. It's worked for A1GP so it should work for CCWS.

[kipper]

I think a possible issue with racing at Brands on the GP circuit is that they are close to the maximum number of days that they can use it for. Therefore by accommodating Champ Cars, it may mean that another big meeting may lose its slot on the Grand Prix circuit which may not be Brands Hatch's advantage. That said, if this is not the case then in my opinion the circuit would make for a rather special event, with Donington National circuit making for a good second option.

[MikeH]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Champ Cars at Donington could indeed be exiting to watch. Especially, if it rains ;-)

CC at Donnington would be immense.

[Hazza]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

It was the restructuring of Champ Car which prevented the return to Brands Hatch the following year. I believe it was originally to have been a 5 year deal to run there.

Also, bare in mind Champcar were slotted inbetween around of the (Then quite) popular BTCC which could account for the large crowd.

Well,that and the pure excitement generated for the race. And was a pretty good one iirc. Bourdais or Tracy had a gearbox meltdown...

[norman-normal]

Was it promoted very well?

[JamesRamone]

I went to all 3 Champ Car races in the UK from 2001 to 2003, here my thoughts:

Rockingham 2001: We only ended up going due to free tickets given by Autosport magazine. The crowds didn't seem quite there, but it was brilliant. My first experience of Champ/Indy cars (call them what you will) and my first oval experience, it blew me away. The speed was immense, impressed me more than Formula 1. The race itself was quite good, but the ending was awesome. Brack took De Ferran for the lead quite late on, and looked to have it, but De Ferran got Brack on the last lap, the crowd went wild where i was, really enjoyable meeting.

Rockingham 2002: Went for both days. This was one of my favourite meetings i've ever been too. Got into the paddock to meet all the drivers (Andretti, Tracy, Franchitti etc). The race again was good, with Manning in his nice colour schemed St Georges car leading (won a really nice framed painting of this the next year at Brands ), and Franchitti winning and then announcing a week later he was off to the IRL . I think again the crowds were quite poor

Brands 2003: Went for the whole weekend again, the BTCC as support were ACE, as it was just comming back into its prime. Again paddock access so got to see all the cars close up and meet the drivers, and got to meet Emerson. The actual race was a procession, and i honestly cant remember watching 1 overtaking manouvre. But this was a combination of the poor Brands Indy track and some european rules package which meant they had to run the same setup (or something) as they did in Germany the following week. Still great to see the cars going through paddock hill bend.

Just a quick note on my thoughts for where they should race if they come back. Its got to be Brands GP circuit or Donington GP circuit. It will need a good ticket price and promotion though, as Donington never seem to push events to the max (Moto GP the exception)

Going too watch the Indy 500 now

[sr230772]

i went to rockingham 2002 it was by no means a sell out but not that poor a crowd either, probably half full.brands hatch had a good crowd but the track was useless.if they do return would love to see them run rockingham if not its got to be donnie or brands gp circuit cant see them running silverstone bernie may not like it.

[DaPix]

Originally Posted by sr230772

cant see them running silverstone bernie may not like it.

For a few years Bernie threatened to remove Silverstone from the calendar in an attempt to free up F-1 dates to sell in more lucrative markets. He even suggested giving Britain and France one race date and alternating the location of the race from year to year. (A lose-lose proposition in anybody else's book).

Bernie tried for years to limit the number of races to the 16 initially specified in the Concorde agreement, and he had to make concessions to the constructors and teams to get them to agree to 17 or more in recent years, except 2003. This year, having been as high as 19 races they are back down to 17. I think a number that small will soon be a thing of the past. With more competition for the global racing market I expect both F-1 and Champ Car to get to 20 races within the next two years, and maybe even more by 2010 or 2011.

I think the reappearance of Champ Car in Europe is giving Bernie second thoughts about further reductions in the number of European F-1 races. He has several promoters/countries willing to pay his astronomical sanctioning fees. But, if accepting those comes at the cost of creating a vacuum for top level racing in F-1 markets in Europe he runs the risk of another series, e.g. Champ Car, filling that vacuum and attracting fans away from F-1.

I think that the likelihood that Champ Car will run in the UK beginning (again) next year pretty much guarantees that F-1 will continue to run at Silverstone. So British F-1 fans can thank Champ Car for assisting in keeping Silverstone on the F-1 calendar.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by DaPix

For a few years Bernie threatened to remove Silverstone from the calendar in an attempt to free up F-1 dates to sell in more lucrative markets. He even suggested giving Britain and France one race date and alternating the location of the race from year to year. (A lose-lose proposition in anybody else's book).

Bernie tried for years to limit the number of races to the 16 initially specified in the Concorde agreement, and he had to make concessions to the constructors and teams to get them to agree to 17 or more in recent years, except 2003. This year, having been as high as 19 races they are back down to 17. I think a number that small will soon be a thing of the past. With more competition for the global racing market I expect both F-1 and Champ Car to get to 20 races within the next two years, and maybe even more by 2010 or 2011.

I think the reappearance of Champ Car in Europe is giving Bernie second thoughts about further reductions in the number of European F-1 races. He has several promoters/countries willing to pay his astronomical sanctioning fees. But, if accepting those comes at the cost of creating a vacuum for top level racing in F-1 markets in Europe he runs the risk of another series, e.g. Champ Car, filling that vacuum and attracting fans away from F-1.

I think that the likelihood that Champ Car will run in the UK beginning (again) next year pretty much guarantees that F-1 will continue to run at Silverstone. So British F-1 fans can thank Champ Car for assisting in keeping Silverstone on the F-1 calendar.

well thought out idea here and a good one, but assuming one big thing. Bernie has never been known to think about whats best for the fans but rather what's best for the FOM wallet and with India/SE Asia becoming bigger markets plus any other areas Bernie thinks he needs to go, I'm thinking Europe is probably going to lose a couple races which I hate to see happen.

[Purist]

But which race? Bernie wants eastern Europe, so Hungary stays. With Mercedes, Sauber, and BMW in F1, Germany has to have a date. The tifosi I think might literally try to have Bernie's head if Italy was left. Then there's France (FIA base and home to Renault). Spain has Alonso. Britain, well, most of the teams are based there. Monaco is too glamorous to go. Spa is to F1 what Road America is to CART, so it may go occasionally, but it won't be gone for long; it's survived two temporary drops already (three if you count 1971-82). Also, if the second German and Italian races stay gone, Europe will have dropped two races as it is, and Valencia isn't official at this point, IIRC.

Let's now try to get back toward the original discussion point, but I did want to put those last comments out there on F1 since it came up.

[JamesRamone]

Does anyone remember an article in autosport, maybe a good year or so ago now, talking about the redevelopment of one of the UK tracks with a look to maybe attracting something like Champ cars or World touring cars. It may have been Snetterton as im sure Jonathan Palmer had something to do with it

[JohnSSC]

CC is not at all likely to take $$ or fans from F1. F1 will remain at the top of the heap. The question here really is this: "Can CC attract fans away from the other Open Wheel series' in Europe; such as GP2, A1GP, GP Masters etc or tin-top series' such as the DTM and so on?"

CC may be an inexpensive alternative for some of the promoters - after all, GP2 will be primarily linked to the tracks the F1 show appears at where CC is looking to market themselves so the price may be low. CC can't take on NASCAR here and it certainly is in no condition to take on F1 in Europe - or anywhere else.

[norman-normal]

Are you quoting Tony George again?