Renault World Series 2009 (Off season/General thread)

[JamesRamone]

Thought i would start this with some funny news. Tech 1 boss has been trying to get Redbull, Renault, Toyota development programs to give him some drivers. This is what he had to say following his approach to Toyota

"They said 'ok, you're winning, but the level is crap'. They're wrong, I think that if you look around you'll see P1 Motorsport, a good team, Epsilon-Euskadi and Ultimate-Signature, both good teams. For prestige, it's very important that Tech 1 maintain our position at the top."

Made me chuckle anyway

[chunterer]

The F1 teams response was that WSR level 'is crap'????

Ok, well that's where a lot of Red Bull's drivers have come from and also where people like Kubica, Kovy (to an extent) have also come from!

It also had this year Van Der Garde (apparently very highly rated).

How did they come to that conclusion?!

[runshaw]

That isn't actually the first time i've heard something like that. I can't remember who/when it was said, but it was the manager of an F3 Euroseries team saying they would not expand their operation to run cars in WSR because people higher up the chain look at F3 Euro simply because it is regarded as higher standard all round. To be honest though, I wouldn't say the standard in WSR was crap!

[runshaw]

IN FACT...! Alfonso de Orleans said on this very forum a while back:

"More talented drivers come from Euro F3 than WS. If I had to choose a young gun for GP2, that's where I'd pick him. Many of the other teams in the paddock think along the same lines. Just look where the past two GP2 champions came from. Even Kubika, who won the WS because he spent a year in exile there, came from Euro F3.

The price is the same, but in my opinion you learn alot more and have more of a chance of making it to GP2. Not to mention DTM, if you just cannot find the budget. In my opinion, I would love to have a chance to race there if my pockets dried up."

[chunterer]

Well, that's quite a revealing quote consiering he's backed a young driver for at least 3 years who came from neither?!!!

[Croc]

Originally Posted by JamesRamone

This is what he had to say following his approach to Toyota: "They said 'ok, you're winning, but the level is crap...''

IMO, this opinion isn't shared by the majority of both F1 and F3 teams. Although WS level is weaker than Gp2's, i think everyone agrees with that, i don't see the point of comparing WS with F3 Euro. It's very rare a driver jump directly from F3 to F1, generally is necessary the next step, which may be Gp2 or WS.

If a driver doesn't have enough budget to get a competitive seat in Gp2, no way he should deny the opportunity of racing in WS. I still believe it's better to be a front runner in WS than a mid runner in Gp2.

Just for curiosity, i'd like to know what is this guy's opinion about Formula Master.

[WSR Fan]

Italiaracing.net have just posted what looks like a provisional calendar for 2009:

April 19 - Barcelona
May 3 - Spa
May 24 - Monte Carlo
June 7 - Hungaroring
July 5 - Donington/Silverstone
July 19 - Le Mans Bugatti
August - TBA
September 20 - Nurburgring
October 25 - Alcaniz

A couple of interesting tid-bits: No Italian round and the possibility of the British round returning to Donington. The season will also end at the brand new Motorland Aragon circuit in Spain.

[Alex K]

ANd I think that championship has lost its plot. Look at the coverage of that championship recently, I hardly know who have contested, I know that GIGA drove away with the title, but guys like Marsoin, Jousse, Cunill or Cantelli Jr. are completely not known...

In F3 you can do lot of testing days, if you can't do it, because it's a testing ban, you still can buy track days with a team from different championship and test, how many testing can they do in FR3.5 WS? This is very competitive championship, with very limited testing time, in your first year you just don't have chance.

Look at the grid at the end of the season, many teams had difficulties in finding drivers for their squads.

I like the machinary equality in this championship, but to fight F3 ES, BF3, Formula 2 and up-and-coming GP3 they need to be on telly more often, ask Renault if they can help and fund the winner of FR3.5 slice of his/her budget required for GP2 Series, like MazdaSPEED Motorsports Development Programme does in USA. etc. At the moment they're no threat to BF3 and F3 ES.

[ivanalesi]

Most of my thoughts, but WSbR is more like GP2 alternative than F3 competitor, though many drivers for some reasons skip F3. Renault should get behind WSbR, otherwise they will have even more problems than Afanasiev and whoever was the slowest guy.
Ironically, they are a stepping stone for drivers who have been in F3, but don't have the budget to progress to GP2, yet they never make the effort to take TV coverage. You simply can't boost your driver profile w/o TV coverage! And the F1 test, it's a joke! It was joke even when they had Kubica, they lost someone who's miles ahead of 3 of their recent drivers.
On a positive note, there are much more teams you can choose from and win in WSbR compared to F3 or GP2 and next year's car should be great looking and possibly cheaper. I've heard this year's costs have risen because of the complicated designs and crash damage is much more expensive than before.

[OJB]

I think it depends on what Renault are trying to get out of their 'festival' events.

They attract huge numbers of spectators because of the free tickets, which means it is an ideal chance for them to advertise their brand. That's is their number one priority over nurturing new talent.

I've always been mystified as to why Renault don't get behind the champion each year and maybe fund them a GP2 drive/F1 test. I doubt it would cost them much extra and the exposure would be important.

Look at Alx Danielsson. Fell off the radar when he won the title and surely that only harms the series' credibility. Parente nearly didn't make it to GP2 either and what about Ben Hanley??

I doesn't surprise me that teams don't take it seriously, but it is a shame that is the case because it has bred good talent in the past.

[Alex K]

Good point, who needs Renault F1 two hour test or exhibition, when they won't be able to afford a GP22 drive next year? That was a mistary for me for few years, just why does Renault not back the winner of FR3.5 in GP2, pay bigger slice of GP2 bill, maybe work with top-5 drivers in FR3.5 with giving them disciunts in GP2 additional to places they've finished FR3.5 season? Maybe even give some of the drivers cheapper seats in Renault Megane Trophy.

I am positive if Renault stepped in, and fund some part of Danielsson's budget for GP2, he wouldn't fall of the radar.

TV deals are other issue they should solve.

[WSR Fan]

There's some good discussion going on in this thread so I thought I'd wade in with my two cents.

As some of you know I'm a big supporter of WSR, but I do agree that the series lets it's self down on certain aspects.

As I see it, the major negative aspect is the marketing/promotion of the series. As Alex K mentioned, there needs to be better TV coverage. A few years ago when it was on Motors TV, you used to get quite comprehensive two-hour programs a few days after each event, but since they stopped showing it it has switched to Setanta Sport, which in the most part is a subscription service. The only other option (for UK fans) is the World Motorsport program on Sky Sports, which only shows about half an hour of highlights from each round.

The other bad thing is the Renault Sport website. The race reports are quite good, but the point's standings are rarely updated and the list of teams and drivers for 2008 is inaccurate and contains lots of mistakes (apparently, Roldan Rodriguez drove for RC Motorsport this season...). Also, apart from good old Italiaracing.net, it's sometimes hard to find up-to-date World Series news.

As for the championship itself, it may not be quite at the level of GP2 in terms of profile, but on the plus side the budget required is less than GP2, it is the main series at each of it's race weekends (whereas GP2 is a support to F1) and the drivers enjoy considerably more track time than in GP2 (and the car is super sexy too!).

On a final note, although the Renault F1 test for the winner is a good incentive, I think it would perhaps be a better idea to offer the winner a guaranteed GP2 test or a prize fund to help them graduate to the next level.

Right, rant over

[bella]

the thing i think you have to bear in mind first and foremost about formula renault 3.5 and the world series by renault circus as a whole is that it's not meant for the tv spectator. it's meant for the people who turn up at the circuit, who register their details with renault to get their free tickets, and who are completely immersed in renault propaganda and marketing. they update the look of the car every year to make it look more like a f1 car so it looks right for the people at the circuit. the races are set up to create the most interesting race for the circuit spectators. they provide entertainment for the spectators so they will go home and say they had a really good time and associate that with renault. there is no need for renaultsport to get a good tv deal because that's not their target market.

the media coverage (especially online) of formula renault 3.5 is shocking, i agree about that. the best place to get your information from is the timings archive site. that's updated pretty quickly. but again, there's not really any need - the circuits are always packed out, they don't need any more people to go.

and i disagree with the car being sexy. it used to be. now it just looks like a f1 car crashed and they stuck the broken bits on it. i *do* like the noise, but renaultsport tuned the exhausts so we would like the noise.

taking the situation into context, why they created the series and why it works and how they make it work, i think it's utter marketing genius, and it doesn't matter that the drivers aren't the best in the world. no-one knows who they're watching anyway. they don't care! there's not even an entry list in the programme sheet from the barcelona rounds, although the commentators do a good job of whipping the crowd up into a frenzy about their local drivers.

[WSR Fan]

Going back to the original news item about Simon Abadie asking Toyota, Red Bull etc. for drivers, I'm surprised that more WSR teams don't take advantage of having a junior team in Eurocup Formula Renault. Of the thirteen WSR teams, only three of them (Epsilon Euskadi, Prema and Fortec) have a team in Eurocup Formula Renault, although from next year that will grow to four as Draco are joining the series.

Draco's entry is quite interesting because the team have stated that if any of their drivers win the title, they will recieve a free season with them in the World Series the following year.

It makes sense having a junior team for a number of reasons: If you found a promising young driver, in the early stages of their career and with reasonable backing behind them, you could place them in the Formula Renault team for a season or two, allowing them to learn the tracks and adapt to the team whilst keeping a constant eye on their progress. And if they produce the right results (and have the right funding behind them) you could then promote them to the WS team, hopefully well prepared and integrated within the team setup.

[Albeckinho]

They'll get a free season AND the 500k prize pot or will they use that 500k for the seat? That would make it pay seat.

[Alex K]

Nice post Bella, I've not noticed that there's no entry list in WSR programme.
But if your points are right, than none of the leading drivers shall think about FR3.5, because it's a waste of time. If Renault really do think they don't need telly coverage, that's a waste of money. Really good post Bella.

[bella]

i'm glad someone else gets my point. it's all theory, but it fits. i don't see why drivers shouldn't want to do it though - they do get a lot of publicity, they get to be popular with the spectators, they can invite as many guests as they want, they get autograph sessions and treated like heroes, there's not a bad chance of winning a race either. if you look at the cars this year there's a lot of drivers with personal sponsors as well as the ones who have daddy forking out. perhaps it's the visual thing that the sponsors go for too - the tens of thousands of spectators *will* see those logos every lap, and they'll see the front runners on the big screens too. then they'll pick up a hero card or a poster with the sponsor on. i think the teams and drivers will pick up on the guests thing a lot more next year - there might not be big money to spend but that's where it'll be.

i hate the principle of single make stuff, but i absolutely take my hat off to renault and rpm. they've done it perfectly and it works.

edit - i think there was an entry list in the uk programme, but ours was a proper booklet - in spain it was an a4 glossy piece of paper with a circuit map, a timetable and some random waffle on it. that's the general pattern for the others too, although i think spa had a proper programme. they also have a prize draw to enter if you visit the 2 renault zones and get stamps to say you've been... it's genius. i'd like to see a fr 3.5, fr 2.0 and clio car on display for the spectators to get close to though.

[Alex K]

But the telly is what sponsors like most. If you are driver, a budgetted driver, when you struggle to get sponsors, no coverage may kill your hopes, many of current drivers had low budgets, without promotion on I-net and telly (look at F3 ES or BF3 promo, for same amount of money) they didn't have much chance to impress the critics. To be honest, I don't know what is the difference between say Jousse and Bird, simply because I didn't see Jousse driving, I doubt I know what he looks like and how old he is... IMO they need to have better promo, not only for (mostly) racing laics seatting at the circuits.

[ivanalesi]

I've heard the "family event" theory, but I don't get how more TV coverage can lower their spectators numbers? And I don't think any junior single-seater championship has good coverage. Probably A1 GP is the only one with such, SLF are getting there too. Tell you what, GP2 lost Eurosport and lost a lot of viewers, and none is covering it here. But A1 GP is covered with highlights! I know a TV that has F3ES rights, and they are not showing it It's really low profile everywhere with channels none watches or in hours everyone is asleep. In order for them to get established, they should get multi-year contracts with one TV channel thus ensuring continuity. Switching between channels is no good, only a bunch of guys like us will be looking for Formula X in the new channel.

[Lam Pak]

why they dont hav races in china or brazil?

[Valker]

Because that would be way too expensive?

[WSR Fan]

The World Series by Nissan held races at Curitiba and Interlagos in Brazil back in 2002 and were due to return there in 2003, but the events were scrapped I think because of the high costs involved.

A round in China was also ear-marked for 2004, but nothing ever came of that idea.

[WSR Fan]

Right, pre-season testing begins tomorrow with three days of action at Paul Ricard in Southern France.

After scouring the net, I've managed to come up with a partial driver line-up for the test:

Draco Racing: Marco Barba, Johan Jokinen, Omar Leal, Tristan Vautier
Prema Powerteam: Claudio Cantelli, Pal Varhaug, Rodolfo Gonzalez, Alexandre Marsoin, Renger Van der Zande
Pons Racing: Federico Leo, Claudio Cantelli, Anton Nebilitskyi, Jesse Krohn
RC Motorsport: Michael Rossi, Jakub Knoll, Geoffrey Kwong
Fortec Motorsport: Dean Smith, Adriano Buzaid, Adam Christodoulou, Riki Christodoulou, Jake Rosenzweig
Comtec Racing: Max Chilton

The Top Three in the Eurocup Formula Renault standings (Valtteri Bottas, Daniel Ricciardo and Andrea Caldarelli) are also due to test, as are fellow Formula Renault drivers Roberto Mehri, Antonio Felix da Costa, Tobias Hegewald, Christophe Zanella and Albert Costa.

[Albeckinho]

And Finnish champion Jesse Krohn.

[Francis Albert]

Félix da Costa will test with P1 Motorsport tomorrow