Carbon Fibre

[Phoenix1]

MB mentioned coating the carbon fibre in kelvar to stop it cutting into tyres are the shattered pieces did today. I'm not an expert in this area so could those in the know give some idea of what alternatives their are, if any, and if not what coating to use?

[Kicking-back]

Kevlar would ensure we didn't get shards of bodywork splintering onto the track.

It seems like a sensible solution.

[Spudgun]

True, but would teams scrimp even more on minimum weight because of this for ballast purposes? I know there are the FIA crash test requirements, but we all know that the teams construct their cars to pass it, just.

If they wanted to bring this in perhaps the FIA could increase the minimum weight limit.

There's a thought if the FIA want to reduce speeds. Bring up the weight limit. We'd get slower speeds (laterally more than anthing) and if the teams were intelligent they'd put the extra weight into the safety aspect of the car.

Sorry to go a little OT, but the thought popped into my head as I was typing.

[avsfan733]

From my experience i don't see it really reducing the shards all that much, it would reduce it but there are no ways to even come close to eliminating it. This is one solution a better one would be to simply clean the track better and actually go to the effort of not having cars drive through the shards

[Morris 1100]

My view is that the drivers put the carbon fibre bits on the track so they should put up with the risks! Why spoil a race while marshals pick up thousands of splinters off the track.
If they don't want bits of Carbon on the track then they should ...
A) Stop hitting each other.
B) Stop hitting other things!
C) Reduce the amount of stupid bits of Carbon like barge boards and carbon wishbones.
D) Coat the bits with something to stop it getting on the track.

[climb]

From what I could perceive it's almost all about carbon wishbones the reason of such punctures.
Maybe getting back to metal ones could improve things significantly.

[medler]

They are looking at coating the carbon fibre to stop it splintering, I think that will be seen next year.
As for team scrimping on wieght and having barge boards etc and only building the car to just pass the safety standards.
These are racing cars you build them as close to the tolerance as you can get. Colin Chapman used to believe that if the car didn't collapse as it crossed the finish line then it was over engineered and the components were to heavy.
as for having barge boards etc, everything on the car is there for a reason, so without it the car would be at a disadvantage.
The same goes for safety standards, if you exceed the regulations then you have over engineered the car and probally given youself a competative disadvantage.
Motorsport is dangerous, and F1 is the top of the league in term of technical developemnt, the speeeds and forces experienced means everthing on the car is working at 100% and sometimes bit fail this can happen with carbon fibre or steel. The drivers know this, but accept the risks. However despite the increase in speed and cornering forces the F1 is as safe as it's ever been. In the 60's and early 70's Drivers were killed each season and and F1 driver had a life expectency of 5 years.

[Morris 1100]

If one car has barge boards then it has an advantage.
If all cars have barge boards then there is no advantage.

Get rid of them (and wings as well!)

[medler]

Originally posted by Morris 1100
If one car has barge boards then it has an advantage.
If all cars have barge boards then there is no advantage.

Get rid of them (and wings as well!)

If you did then either F1 wouldn't be the top league of the sport or you have to do the same for F3000, F3, Formula Renault etc.
If you want to watch single seat racing relying on mechanical grip then go and watch formula ford.
P.S. I'm all for reducing the downforce on F1 cars as it spoils the airflow behind making it more difficult for close racing.

[Giando]

Why shouldn't they use aluminium for front and back wings, metal for the suspension arms, plus something like ABS resins for the turning vanes and things like this?
All the other components could remain in carbon fibre or the materials they are currently using. Safety structures of the cars wouldn't change, but only the elements that are often destroyed in little accidents.

G

[Lotusonpole]

Good call Giando.

Cheers
Peter

[StephenRae]

Originally posted by medler
......If you want to watch single seat racing relying on mechanical grip then go and watch formula ford.....

Now that is a good idea!

[Morris 1100]

And if I want to watch wings I can go to the airport!

[RWC]

Originally posted by Giando
Why shouldn't they use aluminium for front and back wings, metal for the suspension arms, plus something like ABS resins for the turning vanes and things like this?
All the other components could remain in carbon fibre or the materials they are currently using. Safety structures of the cars wouldn't change, but only the elements that are often destroyed in little accidents.

G

NO!!!
metal sheet wings are horrific cutting weapons when ripped(want that flying into a crowd?)
Metal suspension arms are pretty lethal too (senna got one through the head)
any type of plastic vane will flex

No-this subject has to be thought through properly by qualified people

Ignoring TV scheduals to clean the track would be a good start too!
How about it "mr safety" mad max...?

[Giando]

Ok, RWC.
For the wings they, maybe find a better material.
But for the suspension... I mean it's harder.
The must be solid and resistant.
And metal there is necessary. You remember us about Senna. You're right, but you know that the main problem with the carbon suspensions is in the little metal part that links the arms to the chassis or the gearbox.
So, metal is still here, exactly in the most dangerous point.
I don't know if there are better solutions.
If not, nothing changes between an all metal solution and a carbon-metal one.
Or am I wrong here?

Ciao