Engine Parity

[MarkG]

If, say, getting an engine from Neil Bold or Auriga as examples, does Johnny Racewinner get a "different" engine than Johnny Midfield? I appreciate that no 2 engines will be exact but I suspect there are engines and there are engines. I ask, because I need my engine done and having got back into racing after 15 years, my name isn't Johnny Racewinner, but I'd quite like to have the same engine as him. Basically, I just want myself to blame if I don't do well, because I know I have a good chassis but not so sure about the engine.

[Walshy]

In my humble opinion, I would say that all the engines are there or there abouts. They aren't rocket science, but I still think they are best left to the people that know.

You are going to get stronger engines than others depending on the amount of use or abuse an engine has had, but the fundamental difference with MOST of the guys at the thick end is one of budget. Some, if they so much as hear a strange little noise from the engine, it's out and checked. IT's not unheard of for some of these guys to have several rebuilds over a year. And that costs lots of money.

The average clubbie is just hoping he doesn't have a problem. I know of a couple of guys that purposely set their limiters low to protect their engines.

That's not to say there is the odd hooky engine out there, but that is only speculation.

In my opinion though, the drivers that say "My engine is giving out 117bhp" is nonsense. The best I have ever seen is 109bhp and that was a top spec engine. Remember, technically a Dyno can tell you what you want it to tell you. I wouldn't mind betting that nearly half of a FF grids engines are under 104bhp........

[Alan Hamilton]

If the engines are so basic, of which I agree with you, why do the afore mentioned "engine specialists" proclaim to produce a better unit than the clubbie?

As I would presume, this must be all in the sales and promotional hype to sell their product.

[keithsekree]

For a spec exactly the same as all others produced by the same person try JRP, thats what Blakeny used at last week-ends Combe FF race to get onto pole, and I had 2 top 10 finishes with 9 month old tyres! The blokes (John Percy) a perfectionist and is producing good things. If you want a good engine without the hype get in contact with him, or atleast talk it over with him.

[Barry Pomfret]

Try speaking to Tommy Field at Field Motorsport, he's not that far away from you (Essex). He used to build his own FF 1600 engines when he raced in the category but now runs a very successful engine building business. Phone number 012453 320730.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by keithsekree

For a spec exactly the same as all others produced by the same person try JRP, thats what Blakeny used at last week-ends Combe FF race to get onto pole, and I had 2 top 10 finishes with 9 month old tyres! The blokes (John Percy) a perfectionist and is producing good things. If you want a good engine without the hype get in contact with him, or atleast talk it over with him.

Who is John Percy? What's his number?

[TomS]

Originally Posted by Alan Hamilton

If the engines are so basic, of which I agree with you, why do the afore mentioned "engine specialists" proclaim to produce a better unit than the clubbie?

As I would presume, this must be all in the sales and promotional hype to sell their product.

Various things....club builders can build very good engines but we've found that specialists tend to be better as they build those engines day in day out. As far as i am aware they basically blueprint the engine...that is bringing it up to manufacturers specifications regarding various tolerances etc which are usually quite a long way out if you buy an engine out of a road car or whatever. Also they may have different ideas about the way you should run your oil system or whatever which may have a small effect on overall performance.

[Barry Pomfret]

Whoops! wrong phone number for Tommy Field, should be 01245 320730. (An extra 3 crept in.)

[keithsekree]

John's number is 01425 470026, just let him know I gave you his number so he isn't caught off guard too much. Keith

[Steve Wilkinson]

You could also try Connaught. Phil Price has been producing Formula Ford engines for Clubmans and Historics for some time and is a 'no bull ****' type of guy.

Tel: 01795-843802

[steve27]

take a look at the grid for the last walter hayes......I think about 75% of the grid had engines built by Neil Bold and for good reason, they are good. Last year my Bold built unit took me to a couple of 2nd places but for the most of the time I was finishing 6th or worse. The same engine in the hands of Joey Foster won the festival.......just proves in the right hands that the engine was strong enough to win the NW championship and that jonny x doesn't get a better rebuild than jonny y

[MarkG]

Interesting comments, thanks for the input. It seems then that from a reputable builder, there is parity as much as is possible. I have heard though that certain engines are put aside, and johhny midfield will never see one of those. Engines will vary of course, as demonstrated by the infamous "patch" engine of years ago when FF was in its heyday. I suppose like in all things, there's an element of luck involved.

[Redracer77]

I just spent £1600 on a rebuild and it has come back ****. It doesn't even sound or feel like my engine

[MarkG]

Redracer.. are you prepared to say where this engineering masterpiece was done? Have you used them before?

[Redracer77]

sorry MarkG will not as 99% of the time his engines are good.

[Redracer77]

I know this is not the correct thread but there was talk about the benefit of Pi Dataloggers before on 10/10's and I would swear by them as my engine problem is clearly seen on the data where a driver without may just loose confidence thinking his corner speeds just might be slow. Although it is very obvious when you drive my car that there is a problem the engine itself doesn't sound too different as there is no misfire or anything like that. The data logger printouts will now be used to discuss with the engine builder to help solve the problem. Worth the investment already.

[Barry Pomfret]

I would agree with Red Racer regarding the data logger issue. We changed from one well known builder, who did our zetec engines, to Tommy Field. The cars straightline speed at Brands improved by 3mph and at Snetterton by 7mph!

[MarkG]

I have been thinking about a datalogger, but the expense has been putting me off. But what you guys say about its usefulness is making me reconsider. My only judgement at the moment, if it can be called that, is dependant on comparing with cars near me on the circuit, and that is a bit hit and miss.
Barry, does Tommy do FF1600 engines? The only info I found on him on the web, suggetss he prepares rally-car engines.

[Walshy]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

I know this is not the correct thread but there was talk about the benefit of Pi Dataloggers before on 10/10's and I would swear by them as my engine problem is clearly seen on the data where a driver without may just loose confidence thinking his corner speeds just might be slow. Although it is very obvious when you drive my car that there is a problem the engine itself doesn't sound too different as there is no misfire or anything like that. The data logger printouts will now be used to discuss with the engine builder to help solve the problem. Worth the investment already.

Morning Chris.

I know what your saying about the Data Logger, but you don't need to spend upwards of a Grand to tell you your engine is down on power.

What they are useful for is the lap timing and data aquisition. I have used the Astra Tec in the past on one of the cars we ran in the team and it does make all the difference when tutoring a driver. Regarding engines though, it's best purpose is when a driver says he didn't buzz his engine. You can quite clearly show him he did!!!!!

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by Walshy

Morning Chris.

I know what your saying about the Data Logger, but you don't need to spend upwards of a Grand to tell you your engine is down on power.

What they are useful for is the lap timing and data aquisition. I have used the Astra Tec in the past on one of the cars we ran in the team and it does make all the difference when tutoring a driver. Regarding engines though, it's best purpose is when a driver says he didn't buzz his engine. You can quite clearly show him he did!!!!!

Totally agree Walshy the speed in which you can develop with Pi is massive as you can see where you are losing speed. But as Mark pointed out it works even better if you have a team mate to bounce laps off.

I was just able to see the slow engine by having much higher exiting speeds that my team mate but was miles slower by the end of the straight!!

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by keithsekree

John's number is 01425 470026, just let him know I gave you his number so he isn't caught off guard too much. Keith

Do you know what his back ground is?

Cheers

[Walshy]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

Totally agree Walshy the speed in which you can develop with Pi is massive as you can see where you are losing speed. But as Mark pointed out it works even better if you have a team mate to bounce laps off.

I was just able to see the slow engine by having much higher exiting speeds that my team mate but was miles slower by the end of the straight!!

To say it's not pulling could just be the ignition timing!

How was the engine temperature?

[MarkG]

What is a typical rebuild cost? The previous owner of my car last had the engine rebuilt in Nov 03 for £1600 which included another block. The labour figure was £450 and dyno £180. Is this a typical cost from rebuilders?

[Walshy]

Originally Posted by MarkG

What is a typical rebuild cost? The previous owner of my car last had the engine rebuilt in Nov 03 for £1600 which included another block. The labour figure was £450 and dyno £180. Is this a typical cost from rebuilders?

That sounds about right.

I suppose with a lot of good engine builders, if you work off the figure of £500 for labour + whatever parts are needed.

Anyone that knows me, knows my opinion (whether right or wrong) on dyno-ing, so you could save £180 there.

[MarkG]

Thanks Walshy. Re the Dyno.. surely this can be used by the builder to set the timing, carburettor, and 'run in' the engine? How else do they know it's running right? I haven't a clue about rebuilding engines so maybe my questions are daft, I don't know.
Also, is an engine ready to race after a rebuild or is there running in time?