LMP1 engines (from 2014 to current)

[Mike E]

The new regs allow for just about any engine provided it can get around the lap without running out of gas, so what do we actually know about who is running what next year?

Rebellion: continuing with Toyota 3.4l n/a V8 petrol (I think this is confirmed)
Toyota: petrol + hybrid system
Porsche: probably a small (2l?) turbo 4 cylinder petrol, + hybrid system
Audi: diesel V6? + hybrid system
Strakka: continuing with Honda 3.4l n/a petrol V8?

Any others?

Also, the rule preventing front wheel hybrid use below 120kph is being dropped which might encourage a move to 4 wheel drive for traction and weight distribution reasons. Audi will continue with their 'quattro' system. I wonder if Porsche will go 4wd?

[hondafan37]

Honda will use a small direct injected turbocharged V6 derived from Indycar engine.
http://www.racer.com/exclusive-hpd-p...rticle/300655/
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...02029&page=182

[Pandamasque]

...unless Strakka are allowed (and willing) to grandfather their current car.

[Mike E]

Good to see some variety though.

[deggis]

Out of curiosity, we used LapSim to analyze the implications of the new 2014 Regulations for Le Mans. Will there still be a race? What kind of power plants are there to expect? Will the ACO achieve what they aim for? You will find the answers in the attached article, published in the february issue of Racecar Engineering.

http://www.lapsim.nl/assets/pdf/Arti...014-LapSim.pdf

2.8L V6T and 4.0L V8 are compared.

[Mr Pink]

I always wonder why the Mazda/AER engine is never mentioned when discussing LMP1 engines, I'd think it's a pretty good option for a privateer? Not knowing how well it works with the new regulations of course.

[Maelochs]

I like Dyson racing and have for years, but seriously, would you trust them to build an engine for your team?

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I like Dyson racing and have for years, but seriously, would you trust them to build an engine for your team?

I know Dyson runs them but i thought they were built by AER?

[Maelochs]

Dyson owns AER ... and the engines haven't been bad since they strengthened the block for last season, but the team in general ... has sort of slipped.

[Mr Pink]

Oh sorry, wasn't aware of that. For example though, if I was Dome at Le Mans last year, I would've picked the Mazda option before the shake-to-bits Judd.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

Oh sorry, wasn't aware of that. For example though, if I was Dome at Le Mans last year, I would've picked the Mazda option before the shake-to-bits Judd.

Well, if you believe Judd's side of the story, they weren't the problem.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Well, if you believe Judd's side of the story, they weren't the problem.

Of course there's two sides to those sorts of things and I don't have half the knowledge as most people here (which is why I love this forum) so I won't argue with you.

Really I just wanted to know if I had missed something obvious since the Mazda engine is so seldom mentioned.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by deggis

http://www.lapsim.nl/assets/pdf/Arti...014-LapSim.pdf

2.8L V6T and 4.0L V8 are compared.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting that. Next year will be a school year!

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

Of course there's two sides to those sorts of things and I don't have half the knowledge as most people here (which is why I love this forum) so I won't argue with you.

Really I just wanted to know if I had missed something obvious since the Mazda engine is so seldom mentioned.

The great thing about this forum is that (90% of the time) we debate, we don't argue!

But you're right, we don't know for sure. However, while the Judd engine was no world beater and indeed it's kind of died a death in P1, Judd have produced decent engines in top-level prototypes since for many years now. On top of that, the DOME had a Judd stuck in the back of it before. I'm pretty confident that a fully functioning Pescarolo team, without living on the brink of bankruptcy and with more time to develop the car, could have got that package to be something capable of finishing the race.

Good point though, the Mazda engine is often forgotten, but I think it's overlooked by most privateers, and with good reason. It's not particularly reliable or powerful. At the end of this rules cycle, we've been left with no decent powertrain options for privateers, and that's why we have so few of them.

Let's hope things change for 2014.

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

The great thing about this forum is that (90% of the time) we debate, we don't argue!

But you're right, we don't know for sure. However, while the Judd engine was no world beater and indeed it's kind of died a death in P1, Judd have produced decent engines in top-level prototypes since for many years now. On top of that, the DOME had a Judd stuck in the back of it before. I'm pretty confident that a fully functioning Pescarolo team, without living on the brink of bankruptcy and with more time to develop the car, could have got that package to be something capable of finishing the race.

Good point though, the Mazda engine is often forgotten, but I think it's overlooked by most privateers, and with good reason. It's not particularly reliable or powerful. At the end of this rules cycle, we've been left with no decent powertrain options for privateers, and that's why we have so few of them.

Let's hope things change for 2014.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily suggest that HPD is anything less than decent. It's fast and reliable... that's all you need for endurance lasting 6 hours or more. Of course, only one team is using it this year in the WEC (Strakka), but they've held their own against the Rebellion cars. Plus, next year, things will change...

[ep16]

Remember, that Judd engine also had a habbit of self detonation in the back of the Oak Pesarolos aswell. Including at Sebring a few years ago shoryly after the car had lead briefly overall and was still leading the privateers. Think it went pop at Le Mans two years on the trot if i remember rightly aswell in the same car...

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Beetle

Well, I wouldn't necessarily suggest that HPD is anything less than decent. It's fast and reliable... that's all you need for endurance lasting 6 hours or more. Of course, only one team is using it this year in the WEC (Strakka), but they've held their own against the Rebellion cars. Plus, next year, things will change...

Agreed, but the HPD unit is allegedly hugely expensive and only one team has used it without an HPD chassis.

Lot's of positive signs about next year, lets hope there are more engine options.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Agreed, but the HPD unit is allegedly hugely expensive and only one team has used it without an HPD chassis.

Lot's of positive signs about next year, lets hope there are more engine options.

Wasnt the Toyota engine Rebellion use available to privateers?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Mal

Wasnt the Toyota engine Rebellion use available to privateers?

I'm pretty certain it wasn't, happy to be proved wrong though.

[TF110]

Exclusive to Lola chassis that is. But it seems thats no longer the case as Lola wont exist in the class next year.

[Dario911]

The only thing I hope, is to see all engines balanced in the better way as possible. Diesel cannot be anymore helped by rules. Petrol engines must be as performant as diesel ones. This may attract more manufacturers interested in petrol engines. By now, with Peugeot forfait, only Audi has remained with diesel, and this can't be considered as the leading solution. Now it's time for hybrid (diesel or petrol), but all engines must be on the same plain.
I fear there will not be enough space for small engine suppliers, such as AER and Judd, because of the rising interest of manufacturers in petrol engines. That's not good. Small manufacturers have always been Le Mans salt!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Dario911

The only thing I hope, is to see all engines balanced in the better way as possible.

Regardless of how the balance is going to be in practice, they are already better in a way because in the most simplistic form there is just one parameter to BoP. That should make the inevitable BoP much easier compared to the current messed up displacement-restrictor based rules with hundred other parameters (+ boost pressures, weights, fuel tank flows) which I think will be always inherently wrong. I also hope that if ACO believes the figures are correct, then they will be really left untouched too and not tweaked immediately once one manufacturer starts crying.

So, everything depends on if ACO's hypothesis figures are correct...

http://i.imgur.com/ckXfrOg.png

Interestingly as Bart Hayden revealed here, the 2% BoP rule has been omitted from the new regs:

"...the new regulations, and it isn’t a case of what it says, but rather what it doesn’t say. The current regulations have determined that a 2% performance gap is acceptable between the factory cars and that for private teams like ours. That regulation has been omitted for the new regulations, and by definition it is now regarded as unacceptable to have such a gap in performance."

I really wonder if that interpretation is correct (the leaked draft of the technical regs won't help here as the BoP rule was/is in the sporting regs), because that sounds really impossible to achieve. And imho generally lap times are just really retarded measure of balancing if the point is to balance engines only.

By now, with Peugeot forfait, only Audi has remained with diesel, and this can't be considered as the leading solution. Now it's time for hybrid (diesel or petrol), but all engines must be on the same plain.

2014 force manufacturers to use one of the ERS options (see above pic). But you can't say just "hybrid" because it is not a combustion engine...

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

I always wonder why the Mazda/AER engine is never mentioned when discussing LMP1 engines, I'd think it's a pretty good option for a privateer? Not knowing how well it works with the new regulations of course.

AER's new 2014 LMP1 engine is currently in the build and test phase. for confidentiality reasons its not appropriate for me to reveal what it is, but i am prepared to say its not an I4!......but they are doing one for sure.......admittedley i dont know who its for, but i'm told they have a customer, but i always take that part with a pinch of salt.......it cant be for dyson as LMP1 is now done in the US.......answers on a postcard please.

[broadrun96]

Knew you would have some information regarding a potential AER powerplant, can you say if it is AER only or another AER/Mazda project?

[pedrocor]

Originally Posted by knighty

AER's new 2014 LMP1 engine is currently in the build and test phase. for confidentiality reasons its not appropriate for me to reveal what it is, but i am prepared to say its not an I4!......but they are doing one for sure.......admittedley i dont know who its for, but i'm told they have a customer, but i always take that part with a pinch of salt.......it cant be for dyson as LMP1 is now done in the US.......answers on a postcard please.

Adess has said, prior to Le Mans, they already established a partnership to build the LMP1 version of the T128 Kodewa run with an engine specific engine suplier...