Atmo Caddy LMP

[GT1]

I was thumbing through an old RACER mag and it talked about how the relationship between R&S and Cadillac was ending and cited, oddly, a test with a normally aspirated version of the Caddy V8 in the back of the R&S. Apparentyl according to the report, tests were "disapointing" and the program was dropped.

Anyone have anymore info on the atmo Caddy engine?

[MulsanneMike]

They pulled the turbos off the 4.0 liter motor.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by MulsanneMike
They pulled the turbos off the 4.0 liter motor.

...and saw where the problem was.
Why oh why didn't they use the Corvette engine.

[veeten]

it was the turbos that made the engine work better under those circumstances. In the IRL & pre-ALMS IMSA, the Aurora V8 was the business, but against the likes of BMW, Audi and Panoz, it was at the back of the room.

By not choosing not to do the refinement to the final product, which was at that time really comming on, this racecar will always have that "almost a contender" tag put upon it as a symbol of GM's "continue, only if we're winning" attitude towards motorsport in general.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by cybersdorf
...and saw where the problem was.
Why oh why didn't they use the Corvette engine.

Because den it woulda been a Chebby. Not that the racing Aurora was really a Caddy but neither was it anything else.

The sedan gets away with it because it is a Caddy chassis, if you go into sports racers such as the current LMPs to pretend a Chevy is a Caddy just doesn't cut it.

It is the same as in GARRA calling a Ford a Lincoln, or calling the Chevy a Pontiac.

Bob

[Hauptmann6]

Bob, the engine is actualy on Pontiac. The GTO uses the LS1 now...

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Hauptmann6
Bob, the engine is actualy on Pontiac. The GTO uses the LS1 now...

The LS-1 is a Chevrolet engine developed by Chevrolet people, just as the Northstar, including the 4 liter version used in Oldsmobiles, is a Caddillac engine.
Pontiac does not have its own engines anymore, it uses the Chevrolet V-8, I believe it also has the Caddy engine now, and the Buick V-6.
(I am not sure who developed the various small engines, but most gearhead mags call the new DOHC six a Chevrolet developement.)
They can put any badges(Roger Smiths legacy) they want on them, but the only two V-8s GM has are from Chevrolet and Caddillac.
The reality is Pontiac sells a Holden powered by Chevrolet.
Bob
PS--In an odd bit of irony, the Oldsmobile DRCE(Drag Race Competition Engine) and Big Chief cylilnder heads for it, developed by Pontiac, are still in the GM parts book.
Both are better( dedicated designs) racing engine parts than the big block Chevrolet.(Except for some internal parts there is no interchangebility between the Chevy with the Olds or Pontiac components.)

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
It is the same as in GARRA calling a Ford a Lincoln, or calling the Chevy a Pontiac.

Precisely. And it would have worked just fine. GM has badge-engineered its way through the 20th and into the 21st century, so why be picky now.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by cybersdorf
Precisely. And it would have worked just fine. GM has badge-engineered its way through the 20th and into the 21st century, so why be picky now.

For the same reason that GM market share has dropped by over thirty percent since Roger Smith's badge engineering scheme was first found out, a farce is a farce.
I suppose then Cy, that you wold have no problem with someone selling you a kit car Ferrari GTO as the real thing, after all, as long as it is badged correctly what is inside does not matter.

[paul-collins]

Methinks cy forgot a smiley, Bob.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by paul-collins
Methinks cy forgot a smiley, Bob.

Cy and I have posted enough similar point counter-point such quips, both here and at DSC that he knows no hostile intents are being communicated.
Actually he gave me a chance to vent one of my major pet peeves.
I have to admit though, that between IRL and ALMS, bright futures have been wasted and right now US racing is kind of like a pot of day old watered down coffee, but right now I am watching a spot on the JGTC and all is not lost. to you and yours.
Bob

[veeten]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
... but right now I am watching a spot on the JGTC and all is not lost. to you and yours.
Bob

that is, until he reads the Rules & Regulations from the Japanese GT Assoc.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by veeten
that is, until he reads the Rules & Regulations from the Japanese GT Assoc.

Get thee behind me satan!

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by paul-collins
Methinks cy forgot a smiley, Bob.

No I am completely serious. We are talking about a prototype here, not a production-based GT. Was the Caddy Northstar a Cadillac engine to begin with? Noone had a problem with taking it off the Olds competition shelf and building a Cadillac prototype engine. Later it reappeared in the Opel DTM car. The LMP01 and 02 were prototypes, not road cars. It wouldn't have been a problem at all to take the Chevy V8. And provided they could have made it fit in the LMP02 chassis, that's what they should have done. But as they haven't, and the whole program is dead and buried now (although efforts to revive it seem to continue) the whole argument is academic anyway.

[veeten]

but then again, there is a psuedo of that idea presently in LMP1, it's the Lister LMP. Using a modified version of the LS-1 V8, it has been around for the last 2 seasons, although the racing record hasn't been very favorable to the combination. In some ways, it's comparable to the Mk IIIc in this respect.