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31 Oct 2012, 13:00 (Ref:3160604) | #1 | |
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TGF's Monaco "pole" at 43...
... would be like:
The only three drivers who have set a pole in a F1 World Championship race after the age of 43 are:
The only four drivers who have won a F1 World Championship race after the age of 43 are:
The only driver who has won an F1 World Championship after the age of 43 is:
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31 Oct 2012, 14:00 (Ref:3160620) | #2 | ||
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Aaaahnnn ???
Monaco ? When ? Isn't he retiring at the end of the season ? I'm not sure what you mean... |
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31 Oct 2012, 14:05 (Ref:3160621) | #3 | ||
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He means TGF's achievement at this years Monaco GP and comparing it to others.
Personally, i think they are some cool stats that put some nice perspective on it. |
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31 Oct 2012, 14:16 (Ref:3160622) | #4 | ||
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it was an impressive lap but does he still get credit for it due to the grid penalty?
however those are some interesting numbers. its crazy to think Perez and others could potentially be racing F1 into the 2030's. |
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31 Oct 2012, 14:18 (Ref:3160624) | #5 | ||
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It shows how physically fit MS is for his age. But it's no point comparing drivers from other eras; we all know that doesn't work.
The physical requirements for a driver today are far different from those in Fangio's day. In addition, many drivers from every decade had less chance to progress in F1 because of all sorts of reasons, not least sponsorship. So they never had the chance to "hang around". Still, it might be a while before we get anyone else in F1 who can achieve that in his 40s. |
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31 Oct 2012, 14:24 (Ref:3160625) | #6 | ||
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There was no "pole" for him at Monaco and that's what will go down at the stats for all that is official.
Too much TGF to my taste... |
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31 Oct 2012, 14:26 (Ref:3160626) | #7 | |
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On his repêchage, he may be past his prime, but to be able to compete with the world's best, in contemporary F1 cars, aged 43 is a truly stupendous achievement. That he managed a pole at Monaco this year was incredible. You've got to wonder what he might have been able to accomplish through the rest of the season had the Merc been any good.
Nicanary is right... you can't really compare drivers across era... in particular those from the 1950s/1960s where driving racing cars was a 'sport' confined to the uber rich only... and in most case they weren't a picture of good health or fitness either. |
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31 Oct 2012, 15:26 (Ref:3160646) | #8 | |||
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Quote:
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31 Oct 2012, 21:18 (Ref:3160754) | #9 | ||
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Drivers these days also start much younger, so it's even harder to compare to the 50's when they were all old geezers like Fangio and Farina. Wasn't Schumacher, at the time, the youngest ever F1 champ in 1994? Probably lost that record to Vettel I'd think.
It makes the stat even more impressive. And Vettel taking pole in 2030? Damn that's 18 years away!!! If he keeps racking up the poles for another 18 years, he'll be well into triple digits. I think there's very few drivers that could have a career as long as Schumacher. You have to have quite a good resume, probably at least a world champion. Oh and it doesn't matter if the pole wasn't official. He set still set the fastest time, and it was a legitimate fastest time. Probably only Vettel was the only driver that didn't get what he should have out of his lap. The rest simply weren't able to match Michael's lap. It's the accomplishment that counts. Actually, thinking back, watching Schumacher's split times and eventually pole lap is probably the highlight of the season for me. |
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31 Oct 2012, 22:17 (Ref:3160772) | #10 | ||
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The qualifying times should stand at the pre-penalty positions for record purposes, the grid is the grid and those are the starting positions, should also show penalties. Seb in 2030! That is scary! Thanks W.A Trichlorostyrene - interesting context. |
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31 Oct 2012, 22:18 (Ref:3160775) | #11 | ||
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Unless I've missed your meaning, some of those dates are a bit off.
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Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?" Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..." |
31 Oct 2012, 22:22 (Ref:3160778) | #12 | ||
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Mike Thackwell in 2004! thats fun.
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31 Oct 2012, 22:25 (Ref:3160781) | #13 | ||
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1 Nov 2012, 05:07 (Ref:3160872) | #14 | |||||
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Well, considering expectations were a lot higher, after joining the defending champs. One meaningless pole, is another stat people can fawn, unnecessarily, over Schumacher.
Never mind some flimsy pole position. Taking into account how the 98 season turned out, Prost would've won the title. Considering how silly Red Bull are, continuing to offer him single year contracts, this may actually happen. Quote:
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1 Nov 2012, 09:24 (Ref:3160952) | #15 | |||
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I think in some cases it might be - or + 1 year, I didn't try to be very precise. |
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1 Nov 2012, 10:25 (Ref:3160987) | #16 | ||
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1 Nov 2012, 10:26 (Ref:3160989) | #17 | ||
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At the risk of "fawning," it was an interesting comparison. No one gets credit for a race win simply because they got the pole (and this one does not count due to the penalty), but it certainly shows that Michael still has the speed. Considering the level of competition against which he set fast lap I think it is an impressive achievement.
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
1 Nov 2012, 11:02 (Ref:3161007) | #18 | ||
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Kind of ironic though that the only real bit of brilliance Michael has shown in the past 3 seasons is in a session that it was known beforehand that he'd be penalised.
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That's so frickin uncool man! |
1 Nov 2012, 12:40 (Ref:3161040) | #19 | ||
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Stirling Moss taking a pole in 1972 is food for thought too.
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Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?" Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..." |
1 Nov 2012, 13:18 (Ref:3161062) | #20 | ||
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1 Nov 2012, 14:05 (Ref:3161089) | #21 | ||||
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Quote:
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Granted, today's 20 GP seasons makes it much easier to crank up the stats. Quote:
Actually, Sir Jack Brabham comes relatively close to this, fighting regularly for wins in 1970 at 44, 15 years after his part-time debut. |
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1 Nov 2012, 18:55 (Ref:3161163) | #22 | ||
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I haven't seen this anywhere officially yet, but a reliable source on Twitter reports that Mercedes are going to present Schumi with the car with which he set 'pole' position at Monaco when he retires at the end of the season. I'm not one of his fans, but it would be a nice gesture.
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1 Nov 2012, 19:17 (Ref:3161167) | #23 | ||
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Quote:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...farewell-gift/ |
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1 Nov 2012, 21:17 (Ref:3161226) | #24 | ||
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I usually don´t post that much here, but i keep an eye on you, people
Just wanted to say I am enjoying this thread and the discussion it promotes, and the fact that everyone is defending their opinions with humour, education and respect makes it better. Perhaps we can all learn from this one! Thanks guys! And, ok, my opinion on this: I am sure that, with a better car, TGF would have won this year, at 43. Why has he stayed for so long when other champions retired earlier and never went back? In my opinion: Hunger. He could have retired in 2002 with 5 WDC, or in 2003 with 6, beating Fangio. But he went on to male it 7, and wanted more! Did everyone that appears on the first post´s list had it? i do not think. |
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1 Nov 2012, 21:35 (Ref:3161235) | #25 | |||
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