Your Formula 2 suggestions

[Russfeld]

With the revamping of the F2 tech and sporting format in 05, I think its a great time to finally do the series right.

Imo it needs

--Double header weekends. You're allready there, an extra set of tires and fuel and an overnight rebuild is cheaper than extra weekends. Nothing happens Sunday am of a GP anymore, so add a second race. Maybe race 2 of a weekend could have the mandatory pitstop

--Manufacturer support. Imo one of the strengths of Formula Renault is some of the marketing activation from Renault and Michelin. Get somone like Pirelli to supply a spec tire, and someone like VW/Audi to supply a turbo'd 4 cylinder or V6, or a normally aspirated V8. Mfgs will help market the series, and also help the teams market themselves.

--Keep the sealed aspect, but perhaps allow some additional testing, in the Renault format of group days. As it is there's barely an F3000 testing during the season so its incredibly tough for new drivers.


The latest issue of Business F1 had a excerpt that F2 would require three car teams, which seems difficult given the current financial situation. Let the teams run as many or as few as they want. If Super Nova want to and can manage 3 cars, let them. If Astromega can only get by on one (no offense), let them.

They were also saying that one of the cars *must* be driven by a Friday F1 tester. There's only two big problems with that. There could theoretically be more F2 teams than F1 teams that are allowed to have Friday drivers. And what if the Friday guy cant afford it? I cant see his F1 team or the F2 team picking up the budget of the balance.


Over to you...

[nsxr]

give the cars loads of power from a spec factory supplier.Get a spec chassis company to build two chassis [they make the cars look different and still do the same lap time, plus have good looking cars] pit stops, but make them slower maybe only two air guns and four crew to change tires. the tires should only be able to 7/8 of the race distance at max grip. the last five laps they should go away and let the drives slide and lay rubber out of every corner

[alonso11]

Originally posted by Russfeld
--Double header weekends. You're allready there, an extra set of tires and fuel and an overnight rebuild is cheaper than extra weekends. Nothing happens Sunday am of a GP anymore, so add a second race. Maybe race 2 of a weekend could have the mandatory pitstop

--Agreed,and indeed seems affordable and fiting with the new schedule of F1 weekends (also agree that one of the races should be a 'sprint' without pitstops)

Originally posted by Russfeld
--Manufacturer support. Imo one of the strengths of Formula Renault is some of the marketing activation from Renault and Michelin. Get somone like Pirelli to supply a spec tire, and someone like VW/Audi to supply a turbo'd 4 cylinder or V6, or a normally aspirated V8. Mfgs will help market the series, and also help the teams market themselves.

---I beg your pardon? Pirelli and Audi?? There is no major problem with Avons (although Michelin would sound and perform better without a doubt) and Zytek will be finally replaced with Mecachrome that expected to supply V8/600+HP stuff, it sounds a bit more realistic than Pirelli and Audi/Vw and it will be good too (off topic: VW just quited Formula König after some 18 years of co-operation and Ford will replace them as the engine suplier of the category from 2004)

Originally posted by Russfeld
--Keep the sealed aspect, but perhaps allow some additional testing, in the Renault format of group days. As it is there's barely an F3000 testing during the season so its incredibly tough for new drivers.

--Agreed (however I can tell you that Coloni in particular have 1-2 private tests per month and 12 month a year! plus there is an additional 6-8 official FIA tests during the off- and preseason)


I'm agree also that the 3rd F1 drivers to F2 idea is totaly ill-considered even if it augurs well at first glance.I do however hope that F1 will increase its support towards F2 significantly and will run satelite teams for example.Also if they want to keep their test and reserved driver's racing abilities in a good shape then let him take part in F2 races (while he is present at F1/F2 weekends anyway) but FIA can't make it a compulsary thing for F1 teams to do so.

[Russfeld]

Yeah but Avon doesnt do anything to help the series. In the states we have Yokohama in Toyota Atlantics, and while its not a huge benefit, they do at least run some TV commercials, likewise with Toyota.

Audi (or whoever) might at least have a reason to advertise their series, Zytek and Meccachrome dont.

[alonso11]

I know what you mean but this is F2 it's never going to have a title sponsor or a heading like Yokohama presents Toyota Atlantics or something like that,it's the FIA F2! FIA aren't looking for an engine sponsor they are looking for an engine suplier and the only thing that counts is to make more cheap, fast and reliable engines than Zytek's ones recently are because a.) 450 HP is not enough when F1 is above 900HP and Nissan V6 is beating the laptimes of the category that suppose to be the last step on the road to F1 b.) the Zytek is awfuly expensive and takes by far the bigest part of team's budget c.) most teams were unsatisfied with the engines' reliability (or the lacks of it) (and some of them with Zytek's approach)

[Mackmot]

Two points.
1st The World Series is over in 2005, 2004 is nearly dead with top teams such as Racing Engineering and Adrian Campos out of it.

2nd I heard that the Mechachrome Renault engines had already been awarded the deal.

[alonso11]

We already mentioned the Mecachrome deal Mackmot....

[sceptic]

Originally posted by Russfeld


They were also saying that one of the cars *must* be driven by a Friday F1 tester. There's only two big problems with that. There could theoretically be more F2 teams than F1 teams that are allowed to have Friday drivers

I don't think it is restricted to Friday test drivers, but open to any driver who has a test contract with an F1 team.

Most F1 teams have two test drivers, and some have even more.

[mountainstar]

Renault is already signed up for naming, monetary and marketing support for F2.

Where is the nissan world series going? Is it going to be ended or are they going to switch to new cars? 700 hp cars were rumoured before.

[Mackmot]

RPM have been told to finish the series by Renault and in exchange they have been given the Renault V6 series to organise.

[GM Man]

Maybe you already said this but regarding the car it needs to be at least as techical as a FR V6. In other words, shove that mecachrome engine into the Tatuus. Give it a makeover and you got one serious piece of kit.

And as someone said, tyres that are just a bit to soft to last a race.

This could be really good =)

[Mackmot]

Yes Tatuus are mega, they are reknowed for breaking, their formula fords used to split in half.
I think the Renault engine in a Dallara or Lola is best deffinately not a Tatuus.

[BootsOntheSide]

Great set of ideas there Russ, I agree compeltely with your plan. In particular, having 2 races would be great, as it allows drivers to ge tmore experience, as well as giving extra entertainment for fans on raceday. It'd be interesting to see which of the rookie drivers improve the most in race 2 at each track tehy don't know.

[Aircon]

Why not 3Litre V6 production based with an air restrictor equaliser? Sort of like an upscaled F3. nearly every car maker has an engine to fit this bill (one of the great attractions of F3 from a manufacturers point of view).

At least this way the class won't get hijacked by another car maker. As nice as their money is, Im not sure you really want a class that is potentially important as this to be left to the whim of one (sometime's fickle) company.

[Chucky]

3L V6's make a lot of sense. They already exist in SR2 so it's not as if you're trying something new.

Forget turbo's. You'd never police all the tricks in them.

And a spec engine reeks of a one dimensoinal marketing exercise lacking substance.

[Russfeld]

Yeah but can the allready super-expensive F3000/F2 afford anything but flat rate engine costs? The Zytek system works, it just needed a manufacturer badge for marketing support. And Renault dont seen to mind the staleness of their one make formulas

[Chucky]

Originally posted by Russfeld
Yeah but can the allready super-expensive F3000/F2 afford anything but flat rate engine costs? The Zytek system works, it just needed a manufacturer badge for marketing support. And Renault dont seen to mind the staleness of their one make formulas

If it worked then why did it need "manufacturer support" (i.e. someone pumping money in to artificially keep it afloat)?

[Russfeld]

Look at the relative health of FFord and FRenault over the years, and who was increasing/decreasing their factory support at each stage of the relative series rise/decine.

[halfwitt]

The propposed Mechacrome engine is effing HUGE!, and it is based on a production BMW block!! (Can you imagine Renault badging that) It'll be big and heavy, and the car will be ugly because its form behind the driver will be dicated by this massive engine. A big step backwards. Whatever is used needs to be cheaper than the current engine.

I know some chaps from an F3000 team, and other than the cost of the engine, I've heard no real complaints about reliability or the 'approach' from Zytec.

I think the new engine needs a big step in horsepower, but be nice and small / light to make a good chassis also.

[8ball]

Does Alonso11 actually know any true facts about the current Zytek KV engine,how much the lease fees are, how many miles the KV engine does between rebuilds, the rev limit, how many engines an average team use through a season,what an average teams budget is for a season? I think not.What a prat!!!The KV engines lease fees are around £30,000 for 2000 miles.An average team probably uses 4 engines a year.An average teams budget is between $1-1.5 million.So the engines are NOT the biggest part of their budget.As for reliability issues as far as im aware there have only been about 5 terminal engine failures in 8 seasons and between 1-1.5 million covered during this time.Just because an engine fails to start or cuts out doesn`t automatically mean the engine is the problem,the teams are responsible for the fuel systems,battery etc.If the engines were that unreliable im sure Zytek would not have got there tender renewed 3 times!!!Cosworth ,Mugen engines etc are all more expensive than the Zytek unit.The whole idea of going to a 1 make formula in the first place was to bring the cost of engine and chassis developement down.The proposed Meccachrome ngine is heavier than the current KV engine and physically bigger in size.Which poses packaging problems for the chassis manufacturer.More power means higher spec materials for parts which means the costs rise,look at the cost of an F1 engine,£250,000ish!!!Also what does Alonso 11 know about Zytek`s approach to race support etc,not much obviously.you need to brush up on your facts and research my friend.

[mountainstar]

Keep the F2 car simple and easy to work on.

Initiate a prize fund with something like $200,000 for a win. That will bring out the best drivers and everyone will race hard for the win. It will be a total crash fest, but TV viewers will love it.

[Chucky]

$200K. I'm sure someone's got down stuffed down the back of the couch!

If you put up a 200K pure at an F3000 race I'm sure it would invigorate that as well.

[mountainstar]

Hey, Renault has money. You gotta spend money to make money.

[alonso11]

heck what??

[alonso11]

LOL so let me get it right you register the nick 8ball to talk garbage and call others a prat .. that's impressive First of all 1 engine costs 50k euro thats 35k pounds and not 30k ... and the limit is not 2000 miles but 2000 kilometer which is 1240 miles ... so you'r talking total garbage.Let alone that you mention the (not correct) price of the engine in pounds and the team's budget in dollar, impressive indeed.But the truth is that teams spend at least 300k euro just on the engines per season (off and pre-season included) and that's about 1/4 of their budgets (some teams actually have greater budget than 1-1.5mil but they also test more so they need more engines and at the end of day every team spend about 20-25cent an euro on engines) that's an awful lot.It seems obvious that you have some pathetic reason to register a nick and try to defend Zytek even if it takes fake data or name calling.You would certainly say anything and the contrary of anything to defend Zytek but I'm just not like this.I don't have anything for or againts any supplier and if I don't know it I don't say it.Unless I say "IMO" or "I guess" I'm talking facts here and if you can't find those facts in magazines or on websites then you can be sure that I know it from people who are involved in the racing scene (talking about the prevalent opinion that the recent engine deal not being optimal and talking about one team in particular being unsatisfied with the suplier's approach).If you are for Zytek that's touching really but don't talk garbage to me.