Marshals saftey and needs

[Razor]

A few weeks back on the Aussie motorsport show, RPM, V8 Supercar driver Russell Ingall had a rant about Marshals needs and saftey. I agree with him, he said that Marshals that the people that are in charge of motorsport groups are neglecting Marshals, their personal and saftey needs. For example, a few years back in the 1st round in the F1, (Melbourne, Australia) there was a big crash and a peice of metal was flung at a marshal, killing him instantly. Should the marshals have to stand on those small cement blocks that offer only a small amount of protection. Also, he said that the marshals almost bust the butts off to get to the races on time, they have to pay for their own transportation and accomodation, and what people pay them is about thesame as the price of chicken feed. Does any marshals agree about what I said or disagree? I think that the marshals should get a fatter pay check, more respect and have more saftey houses on race day.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Greg Barton

For example, a few years back in the 1st round in the F1, (Melbourne, Australia) there was a big crash and a peice of metal was flung at a marshal, killing him instantly.

If you're referring to the incident involving JV then that really was a freak-ish accident. IIRC the Marshal fatally injured was actually BEHIND the safety fencing and it was the wheel from the F1 car that went through the 40 inch square hole in the fencing.

Originally Posted by Greg Barton

... what people pay them is about thesame as the price of chicken feed. .... I think that the marshals should get a fatter pay check, more respect and have more saftey houses on race day.

Chicken Feed costs more than we are paid! We are volunteers!

[Razor]

Well, I reckon that Marshals need to get paid, after all. You good people give up you time for people who get paid really big pay checks. Well, how do you marshals support yourselves and your families when about every week, you are looking after a round of motorsport? Also, the chicken feed remark, here in rural NSW, it is almost free. Also, with the safety barrier and fences, they should be stonger and the holes in the fence should be smaller, or sooner than you think, there will be a rare breed of marshals

[b1ackcr0w]

In the UK - This argument has been raging for some time now.

It really does split into two important points.

Point 1 - Pay?
The general consensus of opinion is that we value our position as unpaid volunteers. What we would like is help or assistance with some of our expences and difficulties incurred in attending events. There is a widely held point of view (myself included) that being able to make a profit from marshalling would probably have a very bad effect. The primary motivation for marshalling should be that you actually WANT to do it, not that you gain financially from it.

Point 2 - Conditions and Status
I think this is where the future for us lies. A recent survey of marshals did bring a resounding reply that what is really wanted is respect and appreciation for what we do, and better conditions to do it in. For example, many marshalling posts are more like obstacle courses than places to work. It's really galling (not to mention dangerous - easy to fall and get injured) to run along rough, potholed ground with a heavy fire bottle, then clamber over awkward armco & tyre barriers when you are there to do a job quickly and efficiently. Another part of this is the general attitude that drivers, teams and senior officials have towards "bank" marshals. On the whole it's pretty good, but there are occasions when we seem to be treated as the last priority and an unwelcome incumberence. When it does happen, it blows away lots of hard earned goodwill, and usually means another couple us drift away and do something else where we do feel wanted or worse, some potential new people are put off joining.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Greg Barton

You good people give up you time for people who get paid really big pay checks.

Greg, the VAST majority of UK racing drivers do it as their "Hobby" as well - therefore they do NOT get a wage/pay cheque from it. In fact they pay out hundreds of pounds just to compete in one race, when you take into account the race entry fee, travelling and car preparation etc.

Originally Posted by Greg Barton

Also, with the safety barrier and fences, they should be stonger and the holes in the fence should be smaller

Safety fences will stop 99% of anything that is thrown against them. The hole in the fencing referred to earlier was (Correct me if I'm wrong people) just ONE inch bigger than the wheel that went through it - a (Tragically) one-in-a-million chance of it happening!

[Mark Mitchell]

PS.....Greg.....it's nice to hear of your concerns though! They are appreciated.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

The hole in the fencing referred to earlier was (Correct me if I'm wrong people) just ONE inch bigger than the wheel that went through it

That's how I remember it too. Wasn't it either the marshals' access hole or the flag marshal's hole? Can't remember which, but wither way it was a necessary gap. I believe they changed the design afterwards.

[robert77]

I think it was the flaggies hole Wolley, if I remember right.
And the comment that we should be paid, I'm not sure about, like has been said, we marshal as a hobby just like a lot of racers race for a hobby. I appreiciate the times when at Shelsley, Loton and Prescott and when I am marshalling with the BMCRC I get my fiver-a-day and what other small tokens of gratitude I am given, and I accept that as my 'thank you' for giving up my time to give my help. All I expect is competitors to give me a little respect.

No further comment.

[Stoowert]

Marshals, in their current form, will never be paid. Why should race organisers suddenly up their costs? All the while we call marshalling a hobby, then things will stay the same.
Ask any flagger at Long Beach, for example, if their lot could be improved, my bet is about 99% would ask for better, and bigger flag holes! Marshals conditions have improved a lot since I started marshalling, there's evn a portaloo at thr bottom of paddock by post7! Now, if we could just have a place to keep our bags dry...

[Tracey]

Moxey has hit the nail on the head about one thing we marshals want - respect! It gives you a nice glow at the end of the race to get a wave from drivers whatever position they finish in - unless there are extraordinary circumstances like Silverstone last Sunday, where most of the competitors were having their work cut out just staying on track!

[Woolley]

It makes it feel worthwhile just to see the occasional comment on here from drivers saying 'Thanks, I was having a bad/costly time and you helped'. An especially warm glow came from attending a thank you BBQ put on by a driver who wasn't breathing when I got to him. This is one of the reasons why I tend to concentrate on club and speed events.

Typical clubbie: Driver says thanks at the time, sometimes comes back later to reaffirm it. Known to buy drinks on occasion.

Professional: It was his fault, you saw it, why aren't you writing a report? You're all amateurs, you weren't even waving the flag properly. In any case, I'm in a better position to judge whether I need to slow down for the incident.

OK, that's extreme, and not common, but they're all things I have heard said by pro drivers - sometimes in print - and you know that the perception exists out there. Fortunately, there are plenty out there who are appreciative, and so comments like Russell Ingall's go down well.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

PS.....Greg.....it's nice to hear of your concerns though! They are appreciated.

No problem, Mark. I am trying to show every person my concern to all the marshals and what they need to make their job a whole lot safer. It is one hell of a dangours hobby to take. You guys need more saftey, apperation and respect from everyone, because, you people do not get payed and you risk your lives for other people. Also, with the flag holes in saftey barriers, they should be replaced with a large screen with a digital made flag on the screen to show what track contidion it is in. For example: a green flag waving to show it is ok to race. With a saftey car period, the screen would show a yellow flag with the SC sign in the middle. Does anyone agree or disagree?

[PVDA]

It was an access gap not a flag gap.

They have now boxed in the area behind the gaps they have left behind but many of the gaps have been removed making it harder to get to or from incidents.

It's a compromise and we're stuck with it.

[sib668]

The idea of a screen with a flag on is good but i can't see it taking off for a number of reasons.
1. Cost. Would a circuit owner splash out a lot of money for weatherproof electronics and a large electricity bill or have a marshal do the job for free.
2. Breakdowns. I dont know about you but i always seem to see computers breaking down. I remember race meetings where there were powercuts during a race. what would happen with that system then.
3. If they did replace flags with screens we would be losing valuable members of the marshalling community with a wealth of experiance, and i would rather have somebody who knows what they are doing, and can pass on other knowledge during a meeting.
Now i am a bit of a gadget freak but on the whole i would rather have a person there than a machine.

All marshalls do this for fun which is how it should be..

[Wedgie]

Originally Posted by Greg Barton

No problem, Mark. I am trying to show every person my concern to all the marshals and what they need to make their job a whole lot safer. It is one hell of a dangours hobby to take. You guys need more saftey, apperation and respect from everyone, because, you people do not get payed and you risk your lives for other people. Also, with the flag holes in saftey barriers, they should be replaced with a large screen with a digital made flag on the screen to show what track contidion it is in. For example: a green flag waving to show it is ok to race. With a saftey car period, the screen would show a yellow flag with the SC sign in the middle. Does anyone agree or disagree?

Once again Knockhill is a head of the game, sort of.

The circuit has installed a red light and a yellow light, with a switch in the concrete marshalls hut, at every corner. These were installed for use by the circuit staff on track days but the Scottish Motor Racing Club are investigating their possible use during races.

KJR

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by sib668

3. If they did replace flags with screens we would be losing valuable members of the marshalling community with a wealth of experiance, and i would rather have somebody who knows what they are doing, and can pass on other knowledge during a meeting.

A couple of points here.

Firstly, who would operate the 'electronic flags'? In all probability a flaggie on each post.

Secondly, you are making the, incorrect, assumption that flaggies are all unable, unwilling or unfit for any other duty & that if not required to flag they would just give up marshalling. All flaggies hold another grade besides flag & many of them regularly do other duties. Of course, those whose decrepitude makes them unfit for incident work could train as observers.......

[Paul Newns]

The issue of safety is obviously important. The one thing drivers can do for marshals if they care about our safety is SLOW DOWN AND OBEY YELLOW FLAGS! Too often drivers seem to continue at racing speeds, ignoring the fact that marshals and drivers are trackside. If yellow flags were obeyed we wouldn't need safety cars to disrupt races, we could work safe in the knowledge that the drivers have our safety in mind when they pass an incident.

[Clive]

Couldn't agree more. Am still waiting to hear if Parmet No 10 in the GP2 at the GP received any sanctions from the stewards for overtaking under a WAVED yellow whilst marshals were trackside. If he didn't then the response from marshals should be that we do not go trackside to rescue anybody unless they (race control) stop the race to allow us to do that IN SAFETY. We need to know and have confidence that the CoC's and stewards will back us up: if we don't, well *** the lot of them!

[Hepatic]

On the flip side of that, whilst waved yellows were out for the doctor's car thar was on circuit at our post last weekend at Oulton Park, every single caterham driver made significant efforts to slow down. That i believe shows the difference between clubbie drivers and the guys in more "public" series such as GP2...

[Foxy_Marshal]

Howdy,
Just a view from a marshal that got injured at Knockhill.
I was giving a car a push start when, something happened and i went with the car.
End result, few days in Dunfermline hospital, CAT scan and damage to my hand for a few months.
This was a freak accident. could have happened to anyone.I have been back to marshalling since the start of the season. (gratefully my accident was at the last race meeting of the year ;-) )
I personally, in this day and age of everyone suiing everyone, if we got paid, you would have the same situation coming into motorsport. It would ruin a sport, which we all know drivers and Marshalls alike, know is dangerous.
Would just be lots of law suits. most people who race are on a tight budget as it is with out having to take out huge insurance policies against that sort of claim ( they may do already, i dont know). Would also increase costs for the clubs and bring into the question who would actually pay for the marshals? Would the Marshals actually be employed ( tax implications for marshals )

I would however want to reinforce what you say about drivers and teams showing appreciation. Takes a second to smile, or even wave.
Would be nice if some teams did this,
Even nicer when other teams give you cuddles at the side of a track ( thank you Mr Rich)
take care everyone

Foxyx