The Evolution of V8 Super Cars

[Casper]

I have been wondering lately how the category will evolve, will it be a sudden big change or a subtle tinkering and how far will it go. With the demise of the Ozzie manufacturer and the loss of the two cars that formed the spine of the series there has been a concerted effort to entice other manufacturers to be involved. Some (BMW might be one) refused due to the power train requirement, or did they? while others might want to run front wheel drive, after all it is the drive train of choice for most cars these days. I wonder also if Foxsports might make some demands of their own? All the above is crystal ball gazing, what do you think?

[Umai Naa]

If I recall, BMW's argument was that their DTM and GT3 cars were built off the same BMW-produced motorsport-specific bodyshell, and that's what they would've used if it was rubber-stamped for V8SC. But of course, the CotF concept negates that, so BMW stayed away.

[peckstar]

2017 V8 Supercar taking shape

An article today suggested ford are planning on the mustang being involved

[EfiOz]

Something more akin to a Tier 2 grand touring class with the likes of Mustang/Camaro/370Z/CLK etc. might work.

The four door V8 sedan is dead and it becomes very problematic trying to create them from thin air with everyone screaming for parity.

[Casper]

Does that mean that the category has to be more flexible in its thinking? That really is what I am asking, does the category need to evolve and if so how ill that happen. I think the answer is a guarded yes and the evolution has already begun, what happens from here? The original reason for its inception is disappearing in the foreseeable future and they must be pedalling very fast to ensure a healthy race series but the big question(s) is the what and how will it evolve.

[Umai Naa]

Maybe it'll go full circle, and they'll adopt something global like GT3 regs?

Knuckle-draggers aside, by the time Ford and Holden manufacturing is dead and buried, it'd have to be considered as an option if they want manufacturer involvement.

They might lose one or two makes along the way, but who's to say that Volvo or Mercedes won't have a crack at GT3?

[peckstar]

I think if this series dies then Motorsport in Australian is dead as a mainstream sport.

It will still continue as a niche sport,

I think we have seen a big change in vehicle ownership in recent years, Owning a vehicle is more and more about getting from A to B and less about the passion of vehicles People want there cars safe and frugal now, not performance associated.

Highly doubtful GT racing will grab any significant interest from the viewing public

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I think if this series dies then Motorsport in Australian is dead as a mainstream sport.

It will still continue as a niche sport,

I think we have seen a big change in vehicle ownership in recent years, Owning a vehicle is more and more about getting from A to B and less about the passion of vehicles People want there cars safe and frugal now, not performance associated.

Highly doubtful GT racing will grab any significant interest from the viewing public

I'm not quite as pessimistic about it, although our top-level motorsport has always been a production/touring sedan-based series and I can't see that changing in my lifetime.

I don't think V8s will die, but it will evolve into something quite different over the next 10-15 years.

The important distinction is that what people drive has less of a connection to what they like to watch racing.

Ford Australia noted many years ago that even their most die-hard supporters were often driving Hyundais or Kias or Mazdas rather than Falcons.

[GTRMagic]

Just because a manufacturer is involved in V8SC, you cant force them to have marketing programs that connect the consumer with the race car, to encourage them to buy them.

We have seen Volvo and now Nissan are working hard to try and achieve some glow from their halo racing activities, but Ford hasnt bothered since the days of Mr Polites & co, Mercedes goes out of their way not to, while Holden has a strong motorsport department internally but the dealer ads rarely take advantage of it...

As modern marketers have often said, it takes a lot more than sticking a brand on the side of a moving billboard to make a consumer adjust their aptitude to purchase...

To me, moving from the 4 door family saloon to 2 door coupes makes little sense. The volume models, regardless of brand, are in the 4 door variants.

If Ford gets a Mustang, Holden gets a Camaro, Mercedes gets an SLK Coupe, Volvo gets a coupe.. what does Nissan get... a GT-R.... the blokes on the hill at Bathurst will chuck beer cans at it....!

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If Ford gets a Mustang, Holden gets a Camaro, Mercedes gets an SLK Coupe, Volvo gets a coupe.. what does Nissan get... a GT-R.... the blokes on the hill at Bathurst will chuck beer cans at it....!

Are the blokes on the hill still there? I think the series has come a long way in the last 20 odd years, and while people still want to see a RWD V8, I think Nissans return has shown that people have gotten past the past.

I would prefer to see 4 door sedans remain, but I'm slowly coming around to a COTF based coupe becoming part of it as well. It can only spice things up.

And if Nissan are to bring a coupe, the 370Z makes more sense than the GT-R from a dollars perspective.

Though I agree that manufacturers would rather use motorsport to push the volume models.

[Umai Naa]

They've probably sold more GTRs and 370Z combined since the mainstream Altima's release in Australia last November.

[EfiOz]

I think sticking with four door sedans will be far too plain, unless they don't falter from the current specs.

GT racing gets attention due to the unobtanium nature of the cars. And at the end of the day, the punter wants to be impressed.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by EfiOz

I think sticking with four door sedans will be far too plain, unless they don't falter from the current specs.

GT racing gets attention due to the unobtanium nature of the cars. And at the end of the day, the punter wants to be impressed.

very few punters are impressed by GT racing in Australia, it also get very little attention.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Are the blokes on the hill still there? I think the series has come a long way in the last 20 odd years, and while people still want to see a RWD V8, I think Nissans return has shown that people have gotten past the past.

I would prefer to see 4 door sedans remain, but I'm slowly coming around to a COTF based coupe becoming part of it as well. It can only spice things up.

And if Nissan are to bring a coupe, the 370Z makes more sense than the GT-R from a dollars perspective.

Though I agree that manufacturers would rather use motorsport to push the volume models.

If the plan is for coupes, it would have to be changed all at the same time. It wouldnt look good for a Nissan Altima family sedan to be beating a Ford Mustang or Chev Camaro....

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If the plan is for coupes,

Then you might factor in the DTM/SuperGT/GrandAm attempts unification and if these relate to GT's and LeMans...........

Main thing is not to let the manufacturer's marketing bozos damage the championship.

[EfiOz]

I don't think it'll pitch that high. Think more like a modern day TCM car.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I think if this series dies then Motorsport in Australian is dead as a mainstream sport.

It will still continue as a niche sport,

I think we have seen a big change in vehicle ownership in recent years, Owning a vehicle is more and more about getting from A to B and less about the passion of vehicles People want there cars safe and frugal now, not performance associated.

Highly doubtful GT racing will grab any significant interest from the viewing public

The big meteor has hit, the dinosaur's are on the way out. GT racing has and will take over (in Australia) as the main (saloon) car class. You are right in saying that vehicle ownership is more about people movement these days, but we (most of us anyway) have a passion to see the more exotic cars competing, and the local manufacturers will eventually see that too. They have had their heads in the sand, and haven't moved with the times, and consequently the Aus motoring manufacturing industry has all but died. I think that as soon as an enterprising, entrepreneurial type (maybe O'Brien, more likely Quinn) comes along and gets a Stephane Ratel, Blancpain GT3 PRO/am series up and running, Australian motorsport stands a chance.

[Reload]

I think I'll grab the popcorn.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

The big meteor has hit, the dinosaur's are on the way out. GT racing has and will take over (in Australia) as the main (saloon) car class. You are right in saying that vehicle ownership is more about people movement these days, but we (most of us anyway) have a passion to see the more exotic cars competing, and the local manufacturers will eventually see that too. They have had their heads in the sand, and haven't moved with the times, and consequently the Aus motoring manufacturing industry has all but died. I think that as soon as an enterprising, entrepreneurial type (maybe O'Brien, more likely Quinn) comes along and gets a Stephane Ratel, Blancpain GT3 PRO/am series up and running, Australian motorsport stands a chance.

Ha ha, you are dreamin . Hardly anyone cares about gt racing in Australia. Its not even main billing in Shannon's nationals.

Get me a fact to prove me wrong

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

The big meteor has hit, the dinosaur's are on the way out. GT racing has and will take over (in Australia) as the main (saloon) car class. You are right in saying that vehicle ownership is more about people movement these days, but we (most of us anyway) have a passion to see the more exotic cars competing, and the local manufacturers will eventually see that too. They have had their heads in the sand, and haven't moved with the times, and consequently the Aus motoring manufacturing industry has all but died. I think that as soon as an enterprising, entrepreneurial type (maybe O'Brien, more likely Quinn) comes along and gets a Stephane Ratel, Blancpain GT3 PRO/am series up and running, Australian motorsport stands a chance.

GT series in a previous form was very strong for a while (I'm talking mid 80s - Jones in a 935, Brock in the Jane Monza). I think that you're a little harsh on the local manufacturers as in reality, they haven't had a product that they could run in the current GT series (the Bathurst 24 hour Monaro aside). For me, if the GT series is going to become the "main game" it'll need a wholesale movement of well-known driving names from V8s to GT and I'd suggest some team movements as well. Issue for the current GT competitors is that they are likely to be outclassed in that scenario (with all due respect to the people concerned, it's the difference between full-time pro and gifted semi-pro).

Whether any of them (including Mr Quinn) want to see that happen at all is highly debatable - I would think that running in an effective "B" class might not appeal in all cases.

It IS going to be interesting over the next few years. The V8 technical rules HAVE evolved but have essentially been with us since 1993. COTF was of course the big change but the original tech package lasted 20 years near as dammit which is pretty impressive. Other touring car series such as Super Touring, Group A, even our legendary Group C and DTM have not maintained a tech package for that long.

It does seem that the time for change is upon us - the big challenge will be what to change to.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Ha ha, you are dreamin . Hardly anyone cares about gt racing in Australia. Its not even main billing in Shannon's nationals.

Get me a fact to prove me wrong

Yeah...you are right, I am dreamin'........
But you are going to see the continuous, downward spiral of Aus m'sport unless something changes , in our main category. If it stays as is, even you are smart enough to know the outcome.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Yeah...you are right, I am dreamin'........
But you are going to see the continuous, downward spiral of Aus m'sport unless something changes , in our main category. If it stays as is, even you are smart enough to know the outcome.

See you mention downward spiral, the sport is still strong, although not at its peak. New record TV deal. Record crowd at at least two venues in the last two years

The issue is that the falcon and commodore are gone and something has to replace them. Maybe its as simple as mustang for Ford. Maybe a move to non manufacture support is the way forward.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Ha ha, you are dreamin . Hardly anyone cares about gt racing in Australia. Its not even main billing in Shannon's nationals.

To be fair, the selling point (to the categories involved) of the Shannons Nationals is that everyone has equal billing.

[FIRE]

It's a touring car series so they should keep 4 door saloons.

Volvo S60
Ford Mondeo
Holden Malibu
Nissan Altima
...

[old fart]

Come on let's cut all the rhetoric-they are not a production based vehicle. They are a special tube framed sports sedan type with body panels made to resemble a road going vehicle that some people believe resemble the model on the showroom floor. They do have the ability, depending upon the driver etc, to put on some close racing on occasions. Just stirring the pot for fun-something that seems to be missing in a lot of racing currently.stirrer