VSCC do it again!

[D-Type]

We were having a discussion at work about the difference between veteran, edwardian, vintage and classic cars.

Yours truly piped up 'The VSCC defined them, Let's look at their website?'. We did and looked under FAQ. What did they have? How to join the club. End of story.

When will the VSCC realise that if they don't want the club to atrophy they must start looking outwards, rather than inwards? I hope that it's sooner rather than later.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by D-Type

We were having a discussion at work about the difference between veteran, edwardian, vintage and classic cars.

Yours truly piped up 'The VSCC defined them, Let's look at their website?'. We did and looked under FAQ. What did they have? How to join the club. End of story.

When will the VSCC realise that if they don't want the club to atrophy they must start looking outwards, rather than inwards? I hope that it's sooner rather than later.

I suspect the average VSCC member is somewhat frightened by new technology e.g. The Radio.

[Anuauto]

They seem able to recognise money, though. I saw the other day that when even the British Hill Climb Championship meeting at Wiscombe Park is only charging spectators £6, the VSCC are asking £10...

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Anuauto

They seem able to recognise money, though. I saw the other day that when even the British Hill Climb Championship meeting at Wiscombe Park is only charging spectators £6, the VSCC are asking £10...

The most heavily supported hillclimb meetings that I have ever been to have been the VSCC Prescott and Shelsley events. Even with the 40% higher entrance fee the people just role up and pay!

Probably something to do with the larger variety of cars on offer and the no nonsense approach of the drivers.

[HiRich]

It's aproblem a lot of clubs have. They assume visitors will be members and fully au fait. They forget the newbies, slightly interested, idiots, and people just came in the wrong door.

My local rugby club recently appeared on Rugby Special, and it inspired me to consider wandering down to spectate. Their website was friendly and interesting (if marvelously amateur), but featured none of the stuff for idiots like me, such as: how much? do I get a seat, or stand on the touchlines? Can I get a pie & a pint?

Do what I did? Sned an email with your questions, and suggest they add a couple of Idiot's Guide pages. The cost is negligible, and only a handfull of people will read them. But just a couple of conversions into paying customers will pay for it.

[D-Type]

I did e-mail them. This was their reply:

"The Contact Request form enables you to make further enquiries.

The majority of our members think it is a great and informative website. If
you email the question we will get it answered for you."

They clearly don't understand that the target audience for a website should be the public at large, not just their own members.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

I suspect the average VSCC member is somewhat frightened by new technology e.g. The Radio.

As was said to someone who is heavily into vintage car racing:

You'd only be happy if they were racing victorian bedframes fitted with 7 litre methanol burning engines, leather brakes and a ride-along street urchin.

[blackhands]

As a (non-typical?) VSCC member I can assure you that we are fully acquainted with the wireless.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by blackhands

As a (non-typical?) VSCC member I can assure you that we are fully acquainted with the wireless.

How's the cat's whisker holding up?

Seriously I have nothing but admiration for the drivers of vintage cars especially when you see them battling up Prescott or Shelsley. Sadly I have had to miss these two meetings recently due to clashes with other events but I can recommend them as wonderful nostalgic days out.

[blackhands]

I found the definition of Vintage and PVT cars on the VSCC website.

[D-Type]

Yes but not of an Edwardian, which I was looking for.

They then tell you that to join the club you have to be supported by a member. They then suggest that you should go along and introduce yourself at a pub meet. So you go to the events page and what do you find? Race meetings are listed but members' events, where presumably pub meets are listed, is accessible to members only ......

Judging from their website, the VSCC is a very inward-looking organisation. Wasn't that the reason for the wholesale migration of VSCC members to this forum a few months back when they made their discussion forum 'members only'?

[icklimp]

Originally Posted by D-Type

Yes but not of an Edwardian, which I was looking for.

They then tell you that to join the club you have to be supported by a member. They then suggest that you should go along and introduce yourself at a pub meet. So you go to the events page and what do you find? Race meetings are listed but members' events, where presumably pub meets are listed, is accessible to members only ......

Judging from their website, the VSCC is a very inward-looking organisation. Wasn't that the reason for the wholesale migration of VSCC members to this forum a few months back when they made their discussion forum 'members only'?

Firstly judging the website is not necessarily going to give you the full picture, yes there is a certain amount of fear for new technology amongst some but many members, like myself, are fully up to speed.

And the migration to this forum was a very very small (but vocal) percentage, I certainly was on this forum before the VSCC one came into being and enjoy both.

But I do agree there should be more transparency of the various classifications but the 'niche' nature means people do tend to have a bit of knowledge before they even think of joining.

[listernoble]

The club has over 7500 members worldwide catering for a very eclectic mix of machinery form 1900 onwards.It is really the best club for old car enthusiasts.
They run an incredible number of events covering all areas of motorsport.
Their forum is improving all the time and some of the forumistes are very clued up on IT.
OK I am a VSCC member as I am of several other clubs, and of course they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
Lister

[John Turner]

They certainly put on a good show last saturday at Silverstone, the weather being the only real downside (cold, windy and, occasionally, wet). A good mixture of prewar handicaps and races with a couple of races for postwar cars (pre 60) thrown in. We had the wonderful sight of no less than three ex Brooklands Bentley's (the Pacey Hassan, Jackson Special and Napier Bentley) dicing at the front of the Itala and Lanchester Trophy race. Holly Mason was being very agressive, headlights blazing, in one of her Dad's Ex works Aston Ulster's (LM17), one Bentley was laying the inevitable smoke screen, some great dicing down the field in some of the races and some 'new' cars (eg Gideon Hudson's Talbot 105 and Michael Windsor's Bocar - a new one on me), made for a great day. Not sure that I was entirely comfortable with mixing postwar F2 rear engined Coopers with prewar ERA's though - a bit incongruous, and the commentary rambled a bit and suggested that at least one of the commentators matched the age of some of the prewar machinery (you could say that was in keeping with the meeting!). Generally, a good mix and my impression was that it was better attended than previously.

[blackhands]

Definition of Edwardian cars - try this

http://www.vintagelightcar.com/edwar...edwardian.html

[D-Type]

Originally Posted by blackhands

Definition of Edwardian cars - try this

http://www.vintagelightcar.com/edwar...edwardian.html

Exactly my original point.

The information is out there but you have to go and search for it.

The term 'Edwardian' was coined by the VSCC but visiting their own website doesn't tell you about it.

How many sites did you have to visit before you found the one with the definition?

[blackhands]

As a VSCC member and frequent user of their and accociated websites I knew what I was looking for - its under links but as 'lces' which I admit isn't helpful. Some people are trying to drag the VSCC into the 21st century (or at least the end of the 20th) but its a slow process.

[icklimp]

Of course its a slow process, the members of the club are predominantly of the advancing years and the club's natural stance is towards the traditional.

I still stick to my point that few people will be looking for the definition of Edwardian as the likelyhood is that they already have some awareness of the club and itrs definitions. My personal experience is that very few people who are interested in the cars come into without knowing somebody thats already involved.

[blackhands]

The term 'Edwardian' is fairly common and not VSCC specific so its not unreasonable for the VSCC to assume that people know what it means.

But, the VSCC wants punters at its race meetings, at which it advertises that Edwardian cars compete so perhaps a definition would help..

[icklimp]

I do agree more information should be available - but many people will assume the definition of Edwardian is inherent in its title

[D-Type]

Originally Posted by icklimp

Of course its a slow process, the members of the club are predominantly of the advancing years and the club's natural stance is towards the traditional.

I still stick to my point that few people will be looking for the definition of Edwardian as the likelyhood is that they already have some awareness of the club and itrs definitions. My personal experience is that very few people who are interested in the cars come into without knowing somebody thats already involved.

I come into that category. The question came up in a 'coffee machine' discussion. I explained what a 'veteran' and a 'vintage' car are but was not certain of the definition of an 'edwardian'. I volunteered to check the VSCC site as it was 'bound to be there' and would be quicker than googling - it wasn't.

It was the patronising reply I received to my e-mail, which I have quoted, that prompted me to make the posting.

Don't get me wrong. I respect the VSCC and its basic tenet 'Vintage cars should be run and enjoyed' and wish them well. But I feel the club is slightly divorced from reality, which is why I started this thread.

Modern youngsters interested in enjoying cars, who a generation ago would have loved messing around with a 30/98 or the like, now consider VW Golf GTi's and Ford Capris as 'interesting old cars that it's fun to own and drive' and focus on them. Fresh blood has got to be attracted into the vintage movement as the club cannot survive indefinitely on the second generation custodians of these marvellous machines. The VSCC must accept that their spiritual successors are the GTi and Capri brigade and take positive steps to attract them or the club will wither and die.

[icklimp]

As a modern youngster they attracted me - but it is a serious issue and they do need to do something to keep people like me coming into the club.

Austin 7's and the like still represent a relatively cheap form of motorsport, but its not the natura inclination of many newbies into the sport.

[HiRich]

Sorry, but I think a few of you are missing D-type's point. The VSCC is a great club, and in the lucky position of being the 'Bible' on all things vintage. Sure, the club is for (existing) enthusiasts who know much. Sure, 99% of site visitors will be members. But. D-Type wanted an answer to a reasonable question. He, reasonably, thought the VCC would be the best resource to find the answer. I think he should reasonably have been able to find the answer from the website. He is one of those people not in the 99%.
The VSCC could, for mere pennies, add an "Idiot's Guide" to their site. Only a dozen people may use that information every year. But if one person each decade is converted into a member, that's still good value for money.

As an example of the other extreme, my brother now runs the website for the 500 Owners Association (www.500race.org). Much as it pains me to admit it, he has actually done a really good job, particularly in building an encylopaedic history of the cars, drivers and racing. Not only has this helped build better communication amongst members (more members are visiting more often), but it has helped in other ways, particularly:
- Recruiting new members (a couple)
- Press articles (including one unnamed magazine lifting copy for one multipage article wholesale from the site), meaning more publicity.
- Just this week, he has helped bring a car out of storage and back to the tracks. The new owner may never have found the car, nevermind made the effort to buy it, without the site.
- We have been contacted by several families who have typed their surname into Google and found the site. This has led to a wealth of new information and photographs that would have been lost forever.
- A chap in the States is making models of the cars (previously there were none).
- The widow of one driver has offered her archive, including some old trophies.
- It's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that the site played a (small) part in getting us invited back to Goodwood.
If people email in, we attempt to provide an answer to even the most stupid question. The cost has been simply the enthusiasm of a small group to locate information, write race reports and articles, cross-check information, and upload it.

But for a modicum of outward thinking, a splash of helpfulness, and a pinch of politeness, what have the VSCC lost?
- Perhaps D-Type as a member, or his encouragement to others he knows
- The interest of some random spod looking for a similar answer, who might have become a member at a later date.
- Perhaps D-Type may have bought tickets or books from the site.
- Perhaps he knows someone with a missing GN or Bentley chassis in their barn. Or rare parts. Or who can do special, useful work.
All those possibilities for a couple of minutes work. Nah, not worth it, mate...

[D-Type]

HiRich,
You've put my feelings into words far better than I could.
I'm not knocking the VSCC. They do a great job. Let's just say that the VSCC presence at Goodwood last year added to my enjoyment. Without the VSCC the Bentley-Napier would never have existed, let alone temporarily put my hearing into the Jack Brabham class.
I just feel that, as you have so eloquently pointed out, it would be in their own interests to adopt a more outward-looking attitude.
Many amateurs producing websites (and I include my employer here) don't really ask themselves why they are doing it, who their target audience is, or what they hope their site will achieve.
As an extension of their club magazine (I know the VSCC have one) the site probably works very well as a means of communication from member to member. But as a means of telling the public at large what the VSCC is about, what it does, what they can gain from membership, etc it fails dismally.

As an example of where they are going wrong, If the VSCC are serious about attracting members, what is the point of publishing an application form on the internet that requires two member's signatures?

Suppose, hypothetically, having read about the Pomeroy Trophy in Motor Sport for nearly fifty years (as I have) I decide I would like to attend. I go to the website and find that admission I must be a member to attend. Well, it's saved me a fruitless trip to Silverstone. So I delve further and I find an application form and the membership charges. I find that I have to pay an admission charge as well as a year's subscription. That's a bit old-fashioned and not exactly welcoming, but that's understandable - just look at the club name. But, what the h*** - I really want to see a 'Pom' after reading WB enthusing about it for over forty years so I'll pay up. But, what's this? Two members' signatures required. Can i send it off anywhere to get the signatures? No, nothing that simple, elsewhere on the site it says that to get the signatures you 'just' have to attend another event, paying the admission charge, and find the VSCC and they'll find a couple of people to sign it. OK, fair enough, but I don't see the point - they won't know me from Adam. the whole process is possible, but life is too short, the wife wants some decorating done, the lawn needs cutting if it's dry, I can't really give up another weeekend just to get some signatures so I can see what she-who-must-be obeyed calls 'a load of old old cars'. So I doubt the VSCC will ever see this hypothetical person at the 'Pom'.

[John Turner]

Yep, HiRich and D-Type you have between you summed it up perfectly, The VSCC is good and thank goodnes it exists but it could be so much better. Last year some of its own members had a real go at their own club on this website, but from what you are saying, much of it went unheeded. Shame!