Challenge

[pmvblack]

Hello!
I have a challenge for you all:
With 60000 quid, "design" a path for someone to go from completely unknown to paid driver. It can be in anything with four wheels! Not necessarily circuit racing. Karting, Off-Roading, anything really... The total budget, for all the seasons, cannot exceed 60000.
If theres is any possibility of this being done, I might just do it.


As a note, I only have some karting experience...

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by pmvblack

Hello!
I have a challenge for you all:
With 60000 quid, "design" a path for someone to go from completely unknown to paid driver. It can be in anything with four wheels! Not necessarily circuit racing. Karting, Off-Roading, anything really... The total budget, for all the seasons, cannot exceed 60000.
If theres is any possibility of this being done, I might just do it.


As a note, I only have some karting experience...

Give me 60000, il buy advertising space on a billboard in stoke for 5000 so people will know you, then I will let you race my car and in return pay you 5000, I will pocket the other 50000! Deal!? That way you will be known and a pay driver


On a serious note it's damn near impossible, the only thing you can do is do club level karting, if your any good move into national karting, by that point you will need to spend your 60k on karts, engines etc etc. you will be broke and working in tesco. Even if you are massively talented and lucky you will need to move into formula ford or formula 4 and will need a further budget of 100k, if you are lucky you may pick up a sponsor who might help out a bit.

Sorry to bring a harsh reality to this thread but 60k won't cut it! Forget the money, how old are you? What experience of karting do you have? Have you won anything etc etc?

[pmvblack]

I think you are just considering the Formula 1 ladder. That one I know pretty well how much is needed, in order to "climb" it.
Also, I'm in my twenties now...

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by pmvblack

I think you are just considering the Formula 1 ladder. That one I know pretty well how much is needed, in order to "climb" it.
Also, I'm in my twenties now...

Ok then...are you actually any good at driving? There are only a few series I know which have pay drivers. Touring cars, wrc nhra, sportscars and f1./indycar..unless you have been racing since the age of about 8 you have no chance

Do yourself a favour....go out and look at what series people race in and make a living out of it....there are very few. pick a few drivers names then look at their history...tell me which one started in their 20s with a bit of karting experience...you won't find any...I bet they all started at a young age in karting or something similar and have worked their butts off ever since to get where they are....they don't just stroll into it in their twenties with 60k in their pocket ( I'm not being rude...just trying to bring a bit of reality to the situation!)

To me you have 2 choices, win the lottery and become a gentlemen driver, or be a darn good businessman and become a gentlemen driver...


.plenty of people will be willing to take your 60k, but no one will take you seriously with so little experience at such a late age when people the same age as you will probably have a 12 year track record of winning.

Trying to think about the lowest grade series with pay drivers, it's probably the btcc, of which only about 4-6 drivers will be paid to race....I'm pretty darn sure they had about 10 years of racing by your age and a shed load more money!

[pmvblack]

I did look at racing drivers profiles. And not all drift drivers, rally drivers, Off-Road drivers, etc, started young. The most famous rally driver started in his twenties.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by pmvblack

I did look at racing drivers profiles. And not all drift drivers, rally drivers, Off-Road drivers, etc, started young. The most famous rally driver started in his twenties.

Ok then tell me how many rally drivers are actually paid to drive....probably about the top 20 in the world? Admittedly seb loeb started late but had a huge wedge behind him too

Again, how good are you? What experience do you have?

[pmvblack]

Yes, just the top twenty in the world are pros. You are right. Wait, maybe not even that many

[ascarracinguk]

I'm not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic or not....again how good are you? What experience of karting have you got?.

There's no point in choosing drifting/ off reading or rallyin cos you think it's the cheepest way to make it big, if your a **** driver your not gonna make it in any form of motorsport

[midgetman]

Buy a PlayStation. Join in GT Academy. Live on the £60k for two years and do nothing but game, game, game with the odd decent level kart race thrown in. If you're any good at all you'll win the UK round, if you're properly good you'll win overall.

Jann Mardenborough and Lucas Ordonez are properly good drivers and GTA gave them the chance to shine.

Apart from that, forget a career and it may happen organically. Get a job. Buy yourself a car, any car, get out and race it and enjoy it. Make friends. Don't crash, be pretty quick and you'll be asked to share their cars. Become an ARDS instructor. One day someone might pay you to drive their car or teach them what to do. As an instructor you're doing what many people in headline series don't do - earning a living from motor sport. There's some very good drivers plying their trade in historic racing under the patronage of super-rich owners, but you have to earn their respect over many years.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

There's some very good drivers plying their trade in historic racing under the patronage of super-rich owners, but you have to earn their respect over many years.

Someone I know of does that but I doubt he makes a full living out of it although he has other racing interests going on as well.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Someone I know of does that but I doubt he makes a full living out of it although he has other racing interests going on as well.

I agree. But the brief from the OP was to get to "paid driver" status not earn a living from it. It's how lots of us eke out extra funds, which normally get swallowed up by racing again

"The only way you'll make a small fortune from motor racing is to start off with a very big one!"

[pmvblack]

Some proper input now!

I already had thought about the GT Academy, and that is certainly a possible way.
Never had thought about Historic Racing though! Thanks for bringing that up.

Any more left field options?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I agree. But the brief from the OP was to get to "paid driver" status not earn a living from it.

Well if getting paid is your only brief then you don't need to start with £60k. All you needs is a race licence and you can become an instructor, you don't even need to be any good at racing or instructing.

[pmvblack]

About my skills, and since we talked about simulaton:
In the last days, I've been going to a "simulators renting place", since I don't own one, and made some races against experienced guys, and some "real world racers". I already won one, score two more podiuns, and 3 fastest laps. Not God like performance, but not too bad, since my experience in simulators can be measured in hours...

[midgetman]

It wasn't meant to be constructive input!

If you were destined to be great and earn a living from motor sport, you would be doing so by now. There is no shortcut to fame, fortune and riches in any sport - you have to work hard, from an early age, and practice, practice, practice and spend a great deal of money. I could easily take your £60k in two years of minor kart racing.

The people on here who are earning money from being paid drivers in historic racing have spent way more than £60k over the years and are now in the mid-40s to mid-60s age range. You have to earn the respect of people who entrust you with cars worth the GDP of a small nation.

Back to my original advice. Go racing, enjoy yourself. For most of us motor racing is a sport, not a business. If along the way you manage to find a niche that pays you then brilliant. But you cannot buy your way to success without an enormous pile of money. The guys your age who are earning money in the sport now have 15-20 years of experience behind them, at that rate don't expect on seeing a return on your "investment" before you're too old to be quick!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Well if getting paid is your only brief then you don't need to start with £60k. All you needs is a race licence and you can become an instructor, you don't even need to be any good at racing or instructing.

He'll need £60k:

Race car - from £3k for a cheap series, more likely up to £10k
Race clothing £1k
Tow car & trailer £5k including tax and insurance
Tools and equipment £1k
ARDS training and test £1k
First season of entry fees/testing from £5k
Petrol/consumables/damage/travelling/B&B etc

That'll be 10 races which will get him a foot on the ARDS instructor ladder, and it costs to get an instructor licence. The £60k will probably last a couple of years while he gets established.

Alternatively, £20k per year on A&D race hire? I'd charge £5k for a 10 race club karting series at one circuit!

I'd hate to be getting started in motor sport from scratch. If you're not a petrol head from birth and inherit tools/equipment/skills like I was lucky enough to do it must be nigh on impossible to all except the most well financed.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by pmvblack

Some proper input now!

I already had thought about the GT Academy, and that is certainly a possible way.
Never had thought about Historic Racing though! Thanks for bringing that up.

Any more left field options?

seems to me like your incredibly blinkered...and listen to the good bits that you want to hear and ignore the advice that you don't like. you need to remember that the examples that you choose to give like Sebastian loeb are incredibly rare, and while the GT academy is a great initiative you will be pitted up against thousands of people from all over the world who have years of simulator experience and also on track experience.

in some ways its incredibly insulting to drivers who have busted a gut over their life time to get where they have gotten to think that you will just jump in there and 'make it' with very little experience and 60k in your pocket. but hey if you want to have a blinkered approach to all of this and not take some sound advice from people who have been racing for years then its your money, go and waste it!

alternatively do as has been suggested...theres no point in talking about it, get down to your local kart track and jump in a kart, see how good you actually are..and take it from there, either you have a gift from god and will rise to stardom very quickly or you are completely delusional and in for a massive reality check!

[JohnD]

Read Perry Mccarthy's "Flat out: Flat broke".
He spent a lot of money - the clue is in the title - but also worked incredibly hard to get into F1, and never made for more than one race. You need luck, as well as money and hard work. And ability.
John

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

That'll be 10 races which will get him a foot on the ARDS instructor ladder, and it costs to get an instructor licence. The £60k will probably last a couple of years while he gets established.

Alternatively, £20k per year on A&D race hire? I'd charge £5k for a 10 race club karting series at one circuit!

You don't need an ARDS licence to teach. You can buy a race car cheaply enough and I'm sure £60k would last along time if you go about it the right way, sadly most of us don't. Buy hey this is all irrelevant as I'm sure this is not the route that op is talking about.

[pmvblack]

The instructor route is, for sure, something to consider!