Proton's pace

[touringlegend]

Did I see right?! Phil Bennett in the Impian going 4th fastest in Free Practice 2 today?

Sign of things to come from the team perhaps ?

[the_tsar]

I hope so, I really think Phil is one of the best, I hope he gets some solid points tomoro

[speedy king]

Me too. He proved himslef in 2001, people say it was just because he was in a good car, but you can have the best car in the world yet you wont win if you're not a good driver, why is he a racing instructor..

The Proton has let him down so much. That was just a glance of what he's capable of. Top driver!

[kmchow]

I'm not sure if F1 factors/debates apply to touring cars as well, but what is it? Is a race winning result due more to driver talent or competitive car? Can Schumacher win a race in a BAR Honda? Can Muller win a race in a Proton? Can 10% driver talent/90% competitive car make you a winner? Or 20% driver talent/80% car? 30% driver/70% car? Or vice versa?

[touringlegend]

Depends really.

A LOT (infact most) of the drivers who have ever raced the Vauxhall Astra have said it is one of the easiest cars to learn and handle. In those respects the car is very attractive, whereas a car like the Proton may suit one style of driver over another.

We all know the Impians the quickest in a straight line, so it's just that all important handling round the bends that needs to be sorted! BTW - read the other day the Proton Impian uses the same base engine as the Super Touring Renault Laguna did - Proton build Renault engines under licence for their road cars!!

[SPARK Msport]

By the way you can see the way the Front of the Proton looks - reminds me of the Laguna alittle bit.

But yea, some good running being done by the Proton team, I wouldnt just say its Phil, its the whole team who must have been putting hours and hours into getting this car near the front. So (fingers crossed) Proton might show us what they should be doing next year (poduims, wins)!!

[SPARK Msport]

oh no. Not a good weekend for Proton, good job by the guys to get Lesile back out, but none of the form we saw from Free Practice...wasnt there fault (well kinda...) By what I hear Bennett took out Lesile in race one, Lesile looked like he had more problems in race 2, I think Phil finished it but no poduims or anything near...

...there 15 minutes of fame is now up :-(
...Roll on the grand final for 2003...

[racingdick]

How many marks for Leslie's exit out of the first race...

interesting way to get the car back in shape though they tied a rope to the area where the rear light cluster would be and then tied the other end to a bollard which was cemented into the ground outside the garage's back door. They then pushed the car forwards to try and pull out the crushed rear end

[KPC]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Bennett, but the bloke seems to have been in a major incident every meeting this year. Compared to Leslie, who is an experienced campaigner we must remember, he really isn't up to speed, so to speak, although he did break a lap record at (was it?) Nurburgring recently, which shows he can do it. I do watch with the hope that Phil will do well but every race find myself going, "Argh, not again." A different drive may be needed if he can get one.

[Neil Adams]

i think its just cos hes pushing 110% i think he's doing a brilliant job and has just been unlucky.

[KPC]

Don't see the logic in that. For starters, how can anyone give anything above 100%? Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with pushing and doing your damnedest. But if it means you come a cropper time after time, then you aren't doing your best. Learn from mistakes. If the car is off the pace or not balanced so well, then driving it round like someone desperately peed off on a PS2 game and resorting to demolition derby tactics is not the way forward. Perhaps impatience witht he car is the bottom line? For example, it may have been tight at the Old Hairpin the other week, but could he not have lifted off a bit more? Still, what do I know, Phil would have to tell us at the end of the day. If I was a Proton boss though I think I'd be keeping my driver options open.

[Neil Adams]

bottom line is you don't ease off in touring cars because you'll get passed by a load of cars in the blink of an eye. Thats the way its always been.

By saying 110% i obviously just mean he's pushing very hard. It was him who was fourth quickest in the practice session at donington, remember not leslie.

i think phil is the kind of driver who will push a car to its absolute edge of adhesion, and i like that you can see from watching him how hard hes trying.

As for resorting to demolition derby tactics, he hasnt they're called accidents.

The way i've seen him drive is pushing every single lap, qualifying, out and in laps to see what the cars capable of and that is the way forward.

[KPC]

Hmmm?

"Park the car, don't crash it."

[Neil Adams]

okay you're as daft as a brush

[The Bear]

Originally posted by btcc-thunder
i think its just cos hes pushing 110% i think he's doing a brilliant job and has just been unlucky.

Phil Bennett has only finished six races this year out of eighteen. He has 11 points and the championship leader has 210 points. If that is doing a brilliant job then he must be very unlucky. I would not employ a driver who was that unlucky.

[BertMk2]

To be fair a lot of the points gap is down to the car, Muller, Thompson or Neal wouldn't have anywhere near as many points if they were driving a Proton. The Proton simply just isn't quick enough to consistently score big points.

[SPARK Msport]

I just think Proton arent there yet, they have the team just they arent getting to the front as fast as lets say Honda. If Proton themselfs, and maybe even Lotus (Proton own Lotus remember...) put some more money into the team they might get straight to the front ASAP

[Les]

One thing you can never say about Phil is that he doesn't try. It must be so demoralising to see a 4th fastest testing become a back of the grid.

What is he supposed to do - crawl around at the back and bring the car home or give it a fighting chance by being the middle of things? What happens then is the car misbehaviour becomes a crump.

Even when he had that 4th fastest he just shrugged and told me not to hold my breath - that is just so sad.

And lastly - there is very little point in comparing David and Phil. Every time they have gone it is with two totally different set up cars just to get 2 lots of data back and then 1/2 lap of data is not enough. IMO

[No. 1]

Originally posted by Les


Even when he had that 4th fastest he just shrugged and told me not to hold my breath - that is just so sad.

Doesn't sound like someone giving 110%.
You get nothing if you don't finish, all racing drivers know this.
It is bad enough to perform very poorly all season but when you take your team mate out and still not get a result then don't expect too much sympathy from Proton fans or the team. Phil has had a terrible season and in recent races has completely lost it, taking anybody and everybody out. The stewards should have a word with him before any serious injuries happen.

[KPC]

Quite.

The arguments in Bennett's favour are poor. As I said when I entered this thread, I do like the bloke and had high hopes for him after he left Egg. But I see what I see and I don't see a competent driver at the moment. Arguments about giving it your all at the expense of common sense are ridiculous. Leslie manages to bring the car home more often than not. BTCC isn't drag racing, there are corners, you have to steer, lift off if necessary, etc, etc, etc, etc.

[KPC]

Take Menu & Winkelhock in the DTM just now... both past BTCC champions, yet both mid-field non-entities in the DTM. Take Menu, he is not in a Merc or an Audi but an Opel, which is off the pace. Yet a mature drive is what we see. He appreciates he is not a division 1 driver anymore.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by KPC
Take Menu & Winkelhock in the DTM just now... both past BTCC champions, yet both mid-field non-entities in the DTM. Take Menu, he is not in a Merc or an Audi but an Opel, which is off the pace. Yet a mature drive is what we see. He appreciates he is not a division 1 driver anymore.

But is his lacklustre performance due more to the fact he has lost his "edge" or is it more related to driving an inferior racecar? I think the only way to tell is to put him in an equal racecar or single spec series. Or perhaps, put Bernd Schneider, Christian Abt, Jean Alesi, etc.. in an Opel and see how well they do. Last year, Audi clearly had the advantage. This year it seems it's MB.

[KPC]

Good point and it comes back to the Bennett issue. I might be mouthing off upsetting the little Bennett brigade but I've said all along that he did well when he was with Egg and is a generally fair driver. If he was in a Honda or VXR just now and say Muller was in the Proton we'd undoubtedly have a different title contender. Doesn't change the fact that Bennett must accept that he is in a far from developed car. Perhaps as he doesn't share the fame of your Menu's and Thompson's, he is desperate to make a mark. He certainly has.

I don't think Menu has lost his edge, but that's just my opinion. Everyone has good and bad seasons. Thommo has always been up and down.

[KPC]

“We at Team PSP look forward to having the first Malaysian driver to participate in BTCC,” said Wong. “Fariqe has proven to be a fast and very promising driver in touring car competition in this region. This is a great opportunity for him and a matter of great pride for all Malaysian motor sport enthusiasts.


Wong added: “As or David Leslie and Phil Bennett, we would like to take this opportunity to thank them for their relentless support and contribution to Team PSP and wish them every success in their future careers.”

[Super Tourer]

A couple of points.

The Astra is widely recognised as the most driver friendly BTC car on the grid, remember Andy Priaulx (Oulton 2001 when standing in for Phil) was able to stick the EGG car on pole and run at the front with no experience of the car or the BTCC at all. Gareth Howell's comments this year also bear out the difference.

I'm not saying that anyone can turn up and win in an Astra, but it is an extremely well sorted car, that has withstood the competion of the others fairly easily some three years down the line.

However driving a car that isn't, is a different kettle of fish as Phil has found. As it's transpired the first ever BTCC car he drove was probably the best one he will ever race in, therefore the Proton was bound to be a culture shock.

However, I have to admit to finding Proton's 2004 plans very curious. To enter a season of the BTCC with one driver who has never driven either a BTC car or on any of the UK tracks is a brave one, presumably decided by the powers that be at Proton.

To run only two cars is clearly a disadvantage against other 3 car BTC factory teams, and surely highlights the fact they are not that serious about winning the BTCC overall. With the rate of attrition/incidents in BTCC you need to have 3 cars out there, we have seen only light contact force cars to retire with broken wheels/suspensions, so you need a third car out to collect points.

Maybe they will suprise us with the 2nd driver, but it will need to be someone with frontline BTCC experience or the whole season could be wasted.

IMO they should have kept Leslie for continuity, gone for an emerging driver in the 2nd car (Pyper/Eaves/Collard) and kept the third car for their Malaysian driver to have a learning year in.