Who, what, where & when thread.

Mike Bell · 11 Jan 2009, 15:33 (Ref:2369420)

These photos are from an album of my late Fathers. I've scanned them myself so quality may not be that good! They were all on the same page so I am assuming are the same date and event. I have no idea if they are pre or post WW2, and although cars 14 & 16 are recogniseable, anyone fill in all the rest- including which chassis 14 & 16 are? I have some more of another event which I will post on another thread if this attempt is successful!

Steve Wilkinson · 11 Jan 2009, 17:24 (Ref:2369475)

The where is easy - Donington Park

The what - Photos 1,2 & 3 are ERAs.

I'll leave the really hard bit for later!

**Adam43** · 11 Jan 2009, 17:48 (Ref:2369496)

Donington makes it pre-war.

The 1936 GP had fourERAs in it:
#8 Whitehead
#14 Briault
#15 Tongue
#16 A Dobson
See this summary: http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gp366.htm#37
Photo 1 is of #14
Photo 2 is of #16 and the garage confirms the name.

However the garage numbers in 1 don't tally with photo 1.
If it is '36 then #2 is Cholmondley-Tapper's Maserati and #18(?) is Bira's Maserati.

However I am sure someone who actually knows something can confirm/deny and fill in all the details.

Mike Bell · 11 Jan 2009, 18:33 (Ref:2369525)

Thanks Steve & Adam. Donington pre-war makes sense as Dad was studying at Loughborough and if it is 1936 he would have been 18, which sounds right. Oh, and sorry, no extra points for working out they are ERAs Steve!

Cheers, Mike

Mike Bell · 12 Jan 2009, 08:01 (Ref:2369755)

These photos were together in another album, so again I assume taken at the same time & place. Any info welcome!

Philip Venables · 12 Jan 2009, 09:43 (Ref:2369804)

These are post war, the first photo is of Connaught A-type, suspect the next 2 may be V16 BRM, possibly at Boreham, 1954?

Philip Venables · 12 Jan 2009, 09:46 (Ref:2369805)

NEXT PHOTO IS bUGATTI T-35 OR 51, THEN lOTUS 6, DONT KNOW THE NEXT, AND LAST IS EARLY cOOPER bRISTOL, POSSIBLY aNTONY cROOK

jamesholland · 12 Jan 2009, 12:53 (Ref:2369906)

The pictures are not from the 1936 Donington Grand Prix, though I can't say which event they are from. I would suggest that 1938 is the correct year however.

ERA number 14 looks like R3A to me which was Charlie Martin's car. I am by no means sure.

ERA number 16 is a works C Type which would make it either R4C (later D) or R12C (later sold to Prince Chula and named Hanuman). I would plump for the former which would make it Mays' car.

The tail shot of a car going away is of one of the works Twin Cam Austins. It looks like it is going up the hill having left the Melbourne hairpin which presumably dates it as 1938 as the loop wasn't used until the Tourist Trophy in September 1937.

Car number 2 is definitely not a Maserati 8CM. I can't identify it and I'm confused by the right hand side exhaust.

Car 18 is another ERA, whose I don't know.

jamesholland · 12 Jan 2009, 13:04 (Ref:2369910)

Definitely not Boreham in 1954 as it a) closed after the 1952 season and b) the circuit layout was very different - there were no slow corners marked by oil drums. It was a very fast circuit, similar to the Silverstone Grand Prix circuit.

I think the venue might well be Silverstone but for a sprint meeting which leads me to think the photos of the BRM V16 are from a different meeting.

The Bugatti is Sarginson's T35T (2.3 litres unblown).

Lotus Mk VI

The next photo I would suggest is of a Buckler 90 and the last looks like one of the F2 Frazer Nashes converted to a sports car - it looks very like the ex Ken Wharton car.

Farbrooke · 12 Jan 2009, 15:31 (Ref:2369976)

I think they come from two venues - bottom 4 on an airfield and if as you said before your father was at Loughborough then picture 2 of that group could be Wymeswold airfield just outside Loughborough - also all the cars in airfield shots have number plates - some sort of club sprint

Mike Bell · 12 Jan 2009, 15:52 (Ref:2369993)

Thanks for the replies, guys. As it was after the war (V16 BRM obviously) Dad was then resident in Norfolk. Did the BRM ever race at Snetterton? The other shots certainly could be a sprint, and as the Lotus first appeared in 1952 could be Snett as well?

Thanks, Mike

Farbrooke · 12 Jan 2009, 15:58 (Ref:2370000)

Mike - if your father was in norflok by then I am wrong - you might try eastern counties motor Club who were formed in 1950 and ran sprints etc and used many of the local airfields

**Adam43** · 12 Jan 2009, 19:43 (Ref:2370143)

The numbers don't match in the 1938 race: http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gp386.htm#33
ERAs are #19 (Dobson), #15 (Connell), #18 (Cotton). Again the Maserati don't match.
If it was the '38 GP, surely there would be a Auto Union or Mercedes-Benz?

1937 GP doesn't match completely either.

However there are the JCC 200 miles races?

As I said before, I know nothing.

Adam Ferrington · 12 Jan 2009, 19:50 (Ref:2370148)

Mike - thanks for posting such interesting photos.

The ERA photos (and I suspect the others) were taken at the British Empire Trophy at Donington on 1st April 1939.
Car No.16 is R4D of Arthur Dobson
Car No. 14 is R11B of Hon. Peter Aitken

Adam Ferrington · 12 Jan 2009, 20:05 (Ref:2370156)

Car No.18 is ERA R2A of Conn Pollock.

Mike Bell · 12 Jan 2009, 20:30 (Ref:2370183)

Thanks all for input so far! It makes sense for the race to be 1939 B E Trophy with the lack of evidence of silver cars and spectators. Dad was at Loughborough until the start of the war so it would have been possible for him to be there- probably in his tatty Brooklands Riley 'VC 6788'. Sadly I doubt that survived!

Regards, Mike

Vitesse · 13 Jan 2009, 00:11 (Ref:2370302)

Adam - I'd certainly concur with your IDs on the ERAs: I have the same numbers in my records.

The #2 car looks like Ian Nickols in the ex-Parnell K3 c/n 3011. But I have that car as #7, I think from another photo. 2 would fit, though, given that it's an 1100cc car: I have Dodson's Maserati as #4 but no number for Wilson's ERA or Hampshire's Riley (DNA)

From the paint job, I'm pretty sure the car disappearing into the mist is the Brooke Special of Leslie Brooke.

Roger Clark · 13 Jan 2009, 09:48 (Ref:2370461)

I think this is the Mark II V16 which suggests Snetterton April 24 1954.

jamesholland · 13 Jan 2009, 14:55 (Ref:2370646)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitesse

From the paint job, I'm pretty sure the car disappearing into the mist is the Brooke Special of Leslie Brooke.

I still maintain it's one of the works Twin Cam Austins

Adam Ferrington · 13 Jan 2009, 15:06 (Ref:2370652)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitesse

The #2 car looks like Ian Nickols in the ex-Parnell K3 c/n 3011. But I have that car as #7, I think from another photo. 2 would fit, though, given that it's an 1100cc car:

Richard, from the race programme Nickols was indeed No.2 in his MG K3

Adam Ferrington · 13 Jan 2009, 16:13 (Ref:2370703)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesholland

I still maintain it's one of the works Twin Cam Austins

There was only one Works Austin at the 1939 B.E.T. meeting - car No.1 of Bert Hadley.

Mike Bell · 13 Jan 2009, 19:08 (Ref:2370815)

Thanks for that, Roger. Looking at other pics elsewhere it does seem to be a Mk2 and Snetterton is possible because with young family and being a farmer Dad didn't travel very far. I am wondering if the Connaught 'A' type was at the same meeting? This following pic shows the family transport in '54 , which could explain the pic of No 12! (Photo not taken in front of our family home!)-

Farbrooke · 13 Jan 2009, 20:03 (Ref:2370854)

Mike - There is a thread on Fersfield Circuit / airfield on here that you should perhaps read - may solve the location of the lower pictures

Mike Bell · 14 Jan 2009, 06:09 (Ref:2371120)

Well spotted Malcolm- I spoke to Leigh a while back about Fersfield but it didn't click when looking at the photos! Have posted on the other thread, so will see..............

Thanks, Mike

Philip Venables · 14 Jan 2009, 20:51 (Ref:2371585)

Out of interest, the Connaught sportscar is currently owner by Duncan Rabagliati, and despite being very original, went surprisingly well at Goodwood, 2008