Scrutineering

[Mark Mitchell]

This is (As the title suggests) one for any Scrutineers or possibly drivers.

At Oulton on Saturday, I put in a report about an XR3i that had 2/3 of it's windscreen covered by some sort of tinted material (This was in addition to the sponsors visor).

I'd already taken a quick look through the BB but couldn't find anything relevant.

I was told by the person on the phone that if it was "Illegal" it wouldn't have got through scrutineering.

Similarly, I reported a Formula Ford (Sorry Alan!) for having a number that was a: too small & b: looked like it was written on with a marker-pen.

I was told this was "Illegal" and subsequently the "Offending" car was later racing with "Legal" numbers on.

So, the question is: Just how much/little do the Scrutineers look for?

Do things like numbers on cars have to be in place when presented for scrutiny?

Just interested - that's all!

[Hepatic]

Not wanting to stir up a hornet's nest (!) but just look at the numbering mess on the Fiats at Oulton last year...

I guess its a balancing act between checking every little thing in the BB and making sure all the cars are passed / failed before their sessions. Can't be easy with a relatively small number of scruts at some meetings :|

[Mark Mitchell]

I agree entirely Steve.
The numbers do seem to be all over the place this season though! Even GT cars were running with number that weren't as per regs!

[Al Weyman]

I think if numbers are clear then some latitude sould be allowed to design something a little more artistic than a plain block type font. OK fair enough if you do not want to take it to extremes of the Short Circuit boys copying NASCAR with fancy printed numbers with shades etc. but I think a bit of bling should be acceptable as long as at the end of the day they are legible.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

legible.

I think that's the key word!

The GT car was one with defraction (Or is it refraction?) numbers on, and they changed colour as it went past which confused me!!

I also think that they should be clearly distinguishable from any numbers used in sponsorship. I recall the BTCC cars of the Williams Team a few years ago......sponsored by Nescafe Blend 37........how to confuse an already confused Observer!

[Tim Falce]

Cars need to presented for scrutineering as they would for racing, that includes race numbers and any sponsor stickers the regs require although MSA scroots wouldn't bother themselves about the latter.
Generally most scrutineers have their own little pet fads that they check and of course there is always the find the fault of the day.
On the whole they will go out of their way to help and pass a car except maybe with the exception of the scroots from the owners club of the company now run by Tata, and I don't mean the LROC, who seem to go out of their way to stop people racing.

[Davie-c]

We only get about 5-6 minutes to do a car.I will put my hand up and say yes we can sometimes miss things like sizes of numbers and sponsors decals. They are not safety items which is more important.At most meetings that I've Scrutineered at there is between 6 and 12 Scrutineers to do about 100 plus cars in about 2 hours

[pit bull]

I think all scrutineers are gods
(please be gentle with me at Oulton, bank holiday Monday)

[ChrisA]

[quote=Mark Mitchell.......how to confuse an already confused Observer![/quote]
Doesn't take much, does it Mark?

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Doesn't take much, does it Mark?

I like Grapes!

[diz]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

Similarly, I reported a Formula Ford (Sorry Alan!) for having a number that was a: too small & b: looked like it was written on with a marker-pen.

I was told this was "Illegal" and subsequently the "Offending" car was later racing with "Legal" numbers on.

This car is numbered 08 [zero eight] in deference to Liverpool 08 Capital of Culture. It wasn't written on with a marker pen, but is the official logo fior Liverpool 08. Permission was sought - and granted from TSL [formerly MST] to run the number
So official is it that Liverpool Council took six weeks to grant Alan a licence to use it. Initially they wanted a £600 licence fee as well, but the good Mr Pike declined to play that game.
I agree he should have got his signwriter to make it bigger and bolder though.

As it happens, I was in earshot of a radio when I heard a mention of a marshal being unhappy with it.
Mark, I just knew it would be you

[Mark Mitchell]

Thanks for the explaination Diz!
I was one of several to report it by all acounts - race control said they would have a word after the qually.......if they can determine the number!

If I'm honest, I didn't notice it straight away until my flaggie pointed it out and then it was that there are "Two Number Eights Out There!"

The design wasn't really an issue - it was too small to see it - whatever it was!

Vanessa did also report over the air that Alan had been running with it all season.....something else I'd not noticed!

Fair play to Pikey though for supporting the Liverpool COC.

It would probably have been easier for race control just to tell me that it was "Number 08" and I could have lived with that.

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Cars need to presented for scrutineering as they would for racing, that includes race numbers and any sponsor stickers the regs require although MSA scroots wouldn't bother themselves about the latter.
Generally most scrutineers have their own little pet fads that they check and of course there is always the find the fault of the day.
On the whole they will go out of their way to help and pass a car except maybe with the exception of the scroots from the owners club of the company now run by Tata, and I don't mean the LROC, who seem to go out of their way to stop people racing.

Dont let Al hear you say that as for the fault of the day thats not really the way it goes but there are some things that we find during the day which are slightly comical. And I would agree that some do have there pet fads, I probably have mine I just dont realise

At most meetings that I've Scrutineered at there is between 6 and 12 Scrutineers to do about 100 plus cars in about 2 hours

Will have to come north of the boarder a bit this year as we dont normally have that many at a meeting.

The numbers do seem to be all over the place this season though! Even GT cars were running with number that weren't as per regs!

We have to remember that some championships have there own rules/regs on numbers, one of which may be GT's. My first point would be that of all the items we are looking at in the short period we have to see a car my eyes would be drawn to more pressing safety items (belts/seats/helmets), however I will always check the numbers to make sure they tally up with the sign on sheet.
I do have one question though. Shouldnt the numbers be checked when the cars are going into the assy area to make sure you have the right cars for the right race? Not saying thats its your responsibility but arnt we all working together?
The final point would be what difference do the number make to the way you all marshal, I can understand that you might not be able to report him for overtaking under yellows ect (but he will be easy to spot as hes the only one with no number, or hard to read numbers )
Scrutineer
(any views are mine and nothing to do with the MSA)

P.S
Pit bull, I will be keeping an eye out for you this weekend

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

The design wasn't really an issue - it was too small to see it - whatever it was!

Dont you do F1, how do you see those numbers at almost 200mph

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by scrutineer

Dont you do F1, how do you see those numbers at almost 200mph

I flag at GP's.....don't need to see numbers then......just colours!

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by scrutineer

Dont you do F1, how do you see those numbers at almost 200mph

You don't - it's Renault Red or Renault Yellow - depending on the camera colour...

[scrutineer]

The point is the number are small, or maybe not on at all if someone is willing to pay for that space. But arent there two renaults out there, so which is which.

[Mark Mitchell]

Scrutineer has a very valid point when he/she says that the Assy Marshals should pick up on any irregularities prior to them being released onto the track.

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

Scrutineer has a very valid point when he/she says that the Assy Marshals should pick up on any irregularities prior to them being released onto the track.

But please do not take offence as I know you are all stretched and sometimes there are not many on the bank let alone in the assy area.

[Mark Mitchell]

None taken!

If though, numbers are not a real priority and the general feeling is

what difference do the number make to the way you all marshal, I can understand that you might not be able to report him for overtaking under yellows ect (but he will be easy to spot as hes the only one with no number, or hard to read numbers

What happens when I report that "Car number X overtook the car without a number, but was yellow and blue, under yellow flags"? How would that stand up in a judicial?

[Davie-c]

Originally Posted by Davie-c

At most meetings that I've Scrutineered at there is between 6 and 12 Scrutineers to do about 100 plus cars in about 2 hours

Originally Posted by scrutineer

Will have to come north of the boarder a bit this year as we dont normally have that many at a meeting.

It is only at Knockhill that we get that amount.At other event it's only about 4 if your lucky

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

None taken!

If though, numbers are not a real priority and the general feeling is


What happens when I report that "Car number X overtook the car without a number, but was yellow and blue, under yellow flags"? How would that stand up in a judicial?

My point is that as we are pushed for time I would prefer to look for the things that may save a life to those that will get him into trouble. Numbers are important, I think the best way to deal with it would be for the CofC or timekeepers to delete all the times of a car with unreadable numbers, this would have more of an impact and will provide quicker results than what we can do first thing in the morning.