Bernie says its the end

[Nordic]

of Minardi & Jordan,
Paul Stoddard (he of the big debits elsewhere)says his team will be there no matter what.

Bernie says

[sonic]

yep. also here Bernie references the support hes given Jordan this season and that he won't be doing it again:

http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=39875&s=5

from his position bernie must have a pretty good feel for what is going on and If he reckons its unlikely they'll be around I'm inclined to believe him.

I know its contraversial but personally I genuinely would rather see competitive 3-car teams than a selection of no-hopers trawling round at the back.

the top teams already have an entire T-Car team at the races kicking their heels - others actually get to run the cars on the Friday

The only issue I can really see with his plan is spares since its normally the T-Car that would get cannibalised of the latest development parts. Producing 3 latest mods plus spares is a push - so 19 races may not be feasible in that climate.

[Super Tourer]

All good news copy, I 'love' the way Bernie talks in the 3rd person as if he were somehow detached from the situation.

Then again it is a circular argument, which is why we never see a solution.

BE/FIA say the teams need to cut costs - the teams talk about the need for it but no one actually does anything - the teams say BE takes too much money out of F1 and those who provide the show (the teams) get very little - BE says the car makers are in F1 to shift metal out of the showroom and he provides the platform for that, why should he pay more to Toyota (for example) for advertising their cars - the car makers don't shift sufficent cars to justify the cost - they say costs need to be reduced - and around we go again.

[neilwaynesmith]

So let me get this straight, Minardi, Jaguar and Jordan pull out leaving seven teams to supply the minimum 20 cars Bernie is contractually required to provide.

On current form, Toyota get fed-up of becoming the F1 tail-enders and pull out leaving six teams. So, who next? Sauber? BAR?

six (teams) x 3 cars = 18 cars so who are going to provide the fourth cars to make up the numbers? BMW? Ferrari? What will that do to the sport, seeing 4 identical cars finishing 1-2-3-4?

Don't forget, they are forbidden from running each car in a different livery, so what an exciting grid that will make.....

[Aysedasi]

The guy's a wind-up merchant, he's been doing it for years.

[sonic]

I think its a bit of leap to assume Toyota will pull out. Nothig about their operation suggests they were in this for the short term.

id have thought BMW are closer to getting the hump than anyone other major manufacturer at the moment. they've been producing the goods but haven't seen the results they deserve.

[JohnMiller]

Originally posted by Aysedasi
The guy's a wind-up merchant, he's been doing it for years.

Doesn't mean he's wrong though.

Actually, are you referring to Bernie Ecclestone or neilwaynesmith?

[Aysedasi]

lol.

[QuickSilver]

neilwaynesmith,
to follow your argument to its natural conclusion would leave us with only Ferrari, running a 20 car team.
well, at least they'd be guaranteed a podium finish!
-

[Aysedasi]

No change there then......

[Paddy_NL]

Looks like the whole V8 plan has to be schredded, at least Jordan and Minardi can run this years' engine next season then.

[PaulSands]

and both championships thus opening up the prospect of red cars racing each other

[QuickSilver]

i love V8 ... it keeps me regular

[Kicking-back]

There was never any suggestion of V8s running in 2005.

[neilwaynesmith]

Originally posted by sonic
I think its a bit of leap to assume Toyota will pull out. Nothig about their operation suggests they were in this for the short term.

Everything about their budget/facilities suggest that they expected to be around the top three by now. It hasn't happened and if it doesn't happen, there is no way a major Japanese company would tolerate repeated failure in an extremely public arena.

Quicksilver, that's EXACTLY my point. You cannot rely on manufacturers continued support and their willingness to supply three or four cars. IMO, this is a seriously destabilising comment from Bernie.

[Kicking-back]

I suspect Bernie's comments are aimed at shocking the manufacturers into making engines available to Jordan and Minardi.

The manufactures don't want to run three car teams - and they want someone to beat.

[Mekola]

I think for one time, F1 must bet on mediocrity. All time thinking to be "the best" and having ever the highest exigence turned to make F1 a too expensive series and no doubt that will become the hour when the series will be too expensive even for car manufacturers. An then, if the results will not come with the huge inversions, manufacturers will be tired and will take the plug (as did Peugeot, Ford and perhaps Toyota).
Oh... Think that 15 years ago F1 had more than 30 cars...

P.S.: Will Minardi/European go back to GP2 series? I hope so.

[Nordic]

[QUOTE]There was never any suggestion of V8s running in 2005. [/QUOTE


I'm pretty sure you could get a DFV (assuming Cosworth are still around) or Judd etc.
Maybe goodyear still have some slicks kicking around, problem solved. next.

I think this is Bernie's way of saying to Toyota, BMW, Merc etc, either supply some engines and get paid for it, or run a third car and pay for it yourself.

BTW, I am sure if toyota do not get on the pace next year, will be closing the F1 team.

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
I suspect Bernie's comments are aimed at shocking the manufacturers into making engines available to Jordan and Minardi.

The manufactures don't want to run three car teams - and they want someone to beat.

Quite, someone has to be last,,,,

[Rich R]

i think an all dfv formula would work well, has done in the past, it would solve engine supply problems and encourage new teams.
i'm only half joking as well!

[neilwaynesmith]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
Quite, someone has to be last,,,,

EXACTLY, unfortunately someone is always last. And if that someone is a manufacturer who has to stand up and explain to the board exactly what positive return and publicity they are getting for their $squillion investment.....

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by neilwaynesmith
EXACTLY, unfortunately someone is always last. And if that someone is a manufacturer who has to stand up and explain to the board exactly what positive return and publicity they are getting for their $squillion investment.....

Do we think they will draw straws over the candidate to present Toyota's year in F1 to the board.....

[sonic]

Originally posted by neilwaynesmith
Everything about their budget/facilities suggest that they expected to be around the top three by now. It hasn't happened and if it doesn't happen, there is no way a major Japanese company would tolerate repeated failure in an extremely public arena.

we'll just agree to differ on this, I don't think they'll tolerate losing for much longer either - but that will just spur them on to get up the sharp end as they've done in every other class of racing they got involved with. After all Honda have just managed it again - so even more pride is at stake.

By comparison Ford in its current guise never really bought into the idea of F1.

In terms of supplying other smaller teams I'd have thought Toyota best placed to do this (and in the spirit of having someone to beat - the most motivated!)

[Nordic]

In terms of supplying other smaller teams I'd have thought Toyota best placed to do this (and in the spirit of having someone to beat - the most motivated!)

Not sure thats a good selling point, 'the only cars we can beat are ones running our old engines' may not look to good the board.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Nordic
I'm pretty sure you could get a DFV (assuming Cosworth are still around)

Off topic, but the DFV is being made again. There is quite a market in historic racers.