[FIA GT] FIA GT/WTCC split

[BSchneiderFan]

According to autosport.com, the FIA GT Championship and the WTCC will run separately next year. RIP Super Racing Weekends, then. Wonder where the support races will go?

Good thing, bad thing?

[The Badger]

They should have a round of the Porsche supercup of the country that the Fia Gt is visiting . For Japan why not have a round of the JGTC .

That would be cool !!!

[SALEEN S7R]

At least for the European rounds the FIA GT championship will have the new Euro GT3 championship to act as a support series, although when they travel outside of Europe the FIA GT championship will of course require additional support series, perhaps JGTC in Japan or Formula Nippon, both of which are spreading their wings a little bit at the moment...

[BSchneiderFan]

If Stephane Ratel manages to sort out an equivalency formula, there'll be no need for Super GT to run as a 'support' race to the FIA GTs - they can compete directly.

[JAG]

Its all getting a little messy and NASCAR like for me.

[TheNewBob]

I do think the word "messy" is quite suitable - I like it exactly as it is now and has been for the past few years - who on earth wants JGTC and FIA GT competing directly together? I certainly don't, I don't know about anyone else.

However, the Euro GT3 series coming next year is bound to supply some appropriate support - why not whet the appetite for GT racing with... more GT racing! I'm generally against the idea of the GT3 class, but looks like it's getting more promotion.

If FIA GT and WTCC seemingly worked so well together, then why not have national touring car series supporting FIA GT? Also minor/national GT championships could support the WTCC where available...? I doubt they'd like that idea, but hey 'tis just a suggestion.

[JAG]

JGTC is too big to even consider joining up with FIA GT for anything other than the odd promotional event.

Lets not forget GT500 cars are much quicker than a GT1 car.

FIA GT is suffering from the same old GT problems when competition increases.

If someone like Mercedes was to enter they'd no doubt produce an homologation special and we are back to square one agian.

Production racing, with low production numbers required for homologation, is always a recipe for disaster, whatever the series.

Other than demanding 1000 units, the JGTC's 'prototype' GT formula is the only way to eleviate this problem.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by JAG

Lets not forget GT500 cars are much quicker than a GT1 car.

They are? Ive heard this theory thrown around a lot in the recent past, but I dont know how true it is now to be honest, with new cars like the DBR9, C6R and MC12 setting the standard id imagine the 2 classes are much much closer.

[JAG]

They're around 4-5 seconds a lap quicker.

More like LMP2 pace.

The closest a 550 has been in the JGTC is around 2.5 seconds (to pole).

Other times it has been much, much more.

If the authorities let the leashes off the GT1s, in particular lose some weight, they'd be closer.

[Jeffrey-Lee]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

According to autosport.com

Me again (atlasf1 visitor), it's www.autosport-atlas.com, thank you

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by JAG

If someone like Mercedes was to enter they'd no doubt produce an homologation special.

Cough... Maserati... cough.

[SALEEN S7R]

Tell me JAG - where do you find the lap times to make these comparissans? As BSchneiderFan says, cars like the MC12 could be considered a homlogation special, and it is also worth noting that at Spa the pole GT1 time was less than a second slower than the times the DTM cars were setting earlier in the year, and thats on a track thats double the length of most circuits so I think we could say on a normal size track the gap would be 5 tenths to a DTM car, now, whats faster a DTM machine or Super GT car? My money would be on the DTM car.

[JAG]

A 550 has competed in the JGTC.

Spa is a high speed circuit, so the GTs have the upper hand with the extra power. Even so the DTMs still lapped a second or so quicker. Sure they are also in sprint set-up so that helps them.

At Bruno the DTM pole was 1.52, the FIA GT pole 1.56.

A twisty circuit obviously help the DTMs.

JGTC GT500s have more power and downforce than a DTM car, so are quicker still.

Yes, the MC12 is a homologation special. Its also been hobbled with restrictor and wing penalties, yet still outpaced the works Astons at Spa. Imagine what a legal MC12 with all of the penalties removed, and run by a facory team would be capable of.

Variety is the selling point of GT racing, but by its very nature, a factory developed homologation special will drive away the regular Vipers, 550s, Listers of this world, therefore damaging the attractiveness of the series.

[jhansen]

No true comparison can be made in my opinion between either the DTM and JGTC or FIA GT and JGTC. Although, I recall a thread where the difference between the DTM cars and the JGTC cars was commented on. If I get a chance I'll take a look.

As for the topic at hand, I don't quite understand this. The FIA GT/WTCC double billing was a great racing weekend and a splendid marketing opportunity. I'm sure there is much more at stake behind the scenes, but what a shame.

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by JAG

A 550 has competed in the JGTC.

Does it run in FIA or ACO spec, though? I thought the 550 that runs in JGTC/Super GT was pretty heavily penalised.

[JAG]

FIA GT felt the WTCC was restricting the GT series' growth so a split was necessary.

The proposed GT3 support series sounds very much like Speed GT, which can't be a bad thing.

[BSchneiderFan]

IF both series can flourish separately, then it's got to be good news, as neither the WTCC nor the GTs will be seen as 'secondary' to the main event. It's also fair to say that the two championships have different profiles and needs, and could benefit from running on different tracks. A street race would be great for the WTCC, for example, but doesn't really suit sportscars (Helsinki notwithstanding).

[jhansen]

Well that would be a decent billing as well then. Speed GT makes for a nice compliment to the ALMS race weekends.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Does it run in FIA or ACO spec, though? I thought the 550 that runs in JGTC/Super GT was pretty heavily penalised.

According to Prodrive it has a bigger restrictor than FIA/ACO, but a lower level rear wing and a flat floor.

FIA/ACO cars are not penalised, they just cannot benfit from the mods allowed under GT500 regs. due to their production roots.

GT500s are basically prototypes, hence why they take such large leaps forward year on year.

[SALEEN S7R]

Yes but JAG 550s are no longer the top GT1 car IMO by a long way, the C6R, DBR9, MC12 are all ultimately faster these days than the 550. Let a Vitaphone MC12 into Super GT and I think you would be suprised by how well it does, btw the team running the 550 in Super GT, who is it? And what drivers do they have? If they are Formula Nippon drivers which they normally are I dont see the driving standards being as high as FIA GT and then theres the professionalism of the teams...

[cybersdorf]

How strange, then, that the 550s are still winning races.

As has been said already, the trouble with the 550, and other cars developed to FIA/ACO rules, is that they don't quite exploit the SuperGT regulations to the full, and therefore are handicapped. You'd have to build a SuperGT car from scratch to have a really competitive Ferrari (or Lamborghini) - purpose-built de facto prototype chassis with production roof...

[cybersdorf]

As for the new deal in FIA GT, I can't help thinking Pretty Boy is busily digging the series' grave again. He's done it before. No I don't think the current management is up to the task of making this series a genuine, and worthy, World Championship, and I don't see the need to do that anyway.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

How strange, then, that the 550s are still winning races.

Yes Cybersdorf they are still winning races, when the MC12's are heavily ballasted. Also, ask yourself. If the factory Corvette C6R's and works Aston Martin DBR9's and Vitaphone and JMB Mc12's all raced in the same championship together, with no sucess ballast, would the 550s still win races? Maybe 1 or 2 out of say 15 rounds IMO, but they would find it extremely hard. The 550s in FIA GT are fortunate at the moment IMO because there is no permanent manufacturer presence, and there is a sucess ballast system to ensure other cars can win races other than MC12's and DBR9's and C5R's.

[cybersdorf]

If another prototype were faster, would the Audi R8 still be winning races? Maybe 1 or 2 rounds but...

[Graham Goodwin]

And if they didn't have equalisation then the grids would be decimated. People don't spend that kind of money (whether on a 550, 575, MC12 or C5R) to be blown away by the opposition.