Middle age men and... sharing a car with a teenage daughter

[dtype38]

Thoughts of being the proud middle aged owner of a convertible or a hot hatch have sadly been overtaken... (excuse the pun). Number one offspring is rapidly approaching 17 and is very keen on having her own car. That isn't going to happen for many reasons, but I have suggested a compromise. I'm prepared to downsize my big automatic saloon to a smaller manual car for us to share, BUT, only if we can find something both she and I will be happy to drive about in....

Her suggestions are one of those new Beetles, complete with big flowers on it, or perhaps a new style Mini (preferably convertible) or maybe one of those cute Fiat 500's.

Good grief! I still have some dignity, so definitly none of the above. I was thinking something more like a nice 1.6 Focus or perhaps Astra, but after consultation it seems these are "Old Men's" cars!

So, suggestions please! Something with appeal to old and young, and preferably not tooo expensive to insure....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Her suggestions are one of those new Beetles, complete with big flowers on it, or perhaps a new style Mini (preferably convertible) or maybe one of those cute Fiat 500's.

Given that choice - my first preference would be a '12 Beetle with decent alloys, seconded by a 500 abarth. Both should be 'manly' enough.

[dtype38]

I did say :

Originally Posted by dtype38

......and preferably not tooo expensive to insure....

I just ran those pics past her and she said "don't want anything with a Turbo thing, or racing stripes and stuff like that.... Too boy racer!"

Can't say I disagree

[Dave Brand]

How about a Citroen DS3? I'm much older than you & it certainly appeals to me, but I don't think anyone would consider it an "old man's" car - looking at the "how old are you" polls on DS3 fora the median age of owners appears to be around 25. Same (petrol) engines as Minis, without the ugliness, & much better quality (speaking as someone who's suffered three Alfas) than anything made in Italy.

My opinion of Citroens was always that they were cheap & cheerful. With the DS they have managed to build a car with a real "quality" feel to it; two & a half years & 21,000 miles experience suggests that the beauty is more than skin deep . . . absolutely nothing's gone wrong. I've never had a car that's attracted more compliments in over 40 years of car ownership.

[Tim Falce]

Something like a standard punto, Clio or Corsa or expect to pay more on insurance than you will for the car.

[Adam43]

Fiat Panda? I actually want one of these. The thinking man's 500.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Fiat Panda? I actually want one of these. The thinking man's 500.

Had one of those as a courtesy car when my car was in for service. It the previous model, so the new ones may be better, but I was very disappointed. Apart from the dangerous lack of performance (it was a base model), the big centre console rubbing against my legs & the cramped pedal layout, the main thing I remember is that at 70mph on a motorway you couldn't hear the engine . . . or the radio, or any attempt at conversation; I've never driven a car with such such horrendous tyre noise.

Having said that, the last time the car went in for a service we had a Citroen C3 as a courtesy car; that too was unimpressive. Apart from the again, lack of performance in a base model & the cheap-looking interior it was an unpleasant car to drive. The suspension was terrible - soft & underdamped, making it handle like a pig - not so much "turn in" as "flop in" when attempting to drive round a corner. You can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

[bella]

now come on, everyone knows a panda is a clown car that you own, but don't take seriously

on a serious note: had a new clio as a hire car the other week. sat nav wasn't bad, the pluggy inny ipod display on the screen was pretty cool and it looks pretty badass too! it was the diesel one, managed climbing up the alps far better than i was anticipating and practically ran on air. fairly big boot space, the seats were renault standard granite but like i say... really nice car.

[crmalcolm]

Kia Soul?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by dtype38

So, suggestions please! Something with appeal to old and young, and preferably not tooo expensive to insure....

Suzuki Swift ? at least give one a look !

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Number one offspring is rapidly approaching 17 and is very keen on having her own car. That isn't going to happen for many reasons,

Just get her her own cheap runaround and you get your hot hatch or whatever it was you wanted. Tell her when she buys her own car she can choose.

[MagnetON]

Dacia Duster!

[Pure Fiater]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Just get her her own cheap runaround and you get your hot hatch or whatever it was you wanted. Tell her when she buys her own car she can choose.

That's what I did, An Uno for my daughter and a Mk1 Punto for my son.
That was a few years ago now. How about a Mk2 Clio fairly cheap and 1000's out there..

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Suzuki Swift ? at least give one a look !

Or a new shape Fiesta? I've only driven a diesel one of those and it lacked a bit of poke but other than that was fine.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

Dacia Duster!

Are they still making them out of Renault 12 parts ?

[grantp]

Beyond the first year this concept is not economically viable. It will also drive you insane.

Panda has just attained the world record time for CapeTown to London so has to be, er, cool,. Not sure for whom.

Eldest had a new Punto as first car. Ran it for 5 years, middle three at University when it doubled up as a shoe storage facility. Good move. At the end pof yher course, when she was on holiday, the house was burgled and they nicked the car keys. Car was still parked on the street when she returned. Unlocked, no keys but no shoes missing either. Result!

Nasty thing though. The headlights decided to go on (and off) a trip of their own at 5 years old. Fortunately she was just at the point of qualifying for a company car scheme ...

dtype ... sorry, you're barking. It can't be done. Moreover the benefit (siomewhat less than it used to be) of daughter obtaining her own NCB rather than potentially trashing yours has to be factored in.

Currently I have the oldest car of any family member. It is, hoewever, the fastest.

Might be a closer run thing now that elder D has returned from a soujourn abroad and invested in a used BMW 325d. But I think I still have the edge on performance and at least I don't drive a BMW!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Had one of those as a courtesy car when my car was in for service. It the previous model, so the new ones may be better, but I was very disappointed. Apart from the dangerous lack of performance (it was a base model), the big centre console rubbing against my legs & the cramped pedal layout, the main thing I remember is that at 70mph on a motorway you couldn't hear the engine . . . or the radio, or any attempt at conversation; I've never driven a car with such such horrendous tyre noise.

The new model is better, but I haven't driven it much. Mrs43 is potentially going to replace her car. I'd like her to get a Panda, but I think she'd prefer a replacement Focus. Not a bad car, but I fancy something even smaller for short journeys. Her choice...

[bella]

adam, for dinky toy cars, i've had a couple of fiat 500s on hire and they're nice little things. emphasis on the little though - one suitcase took up the bootspace and whenever i went round a corner promptly, the case slid across the boot and kicked the back end out. wasn't too unstable on motorways though.

mind you, if you get a white one the interior feels a bit like a techno japanese toilet...

[dtype38]

Ok, some good food for thought there. Grantp has some interesting advice about her building up NDC and keeping it clear of my own, but I'm not sure these days what the rule are about who is insured and who owns the car. I know that if it's my car and insurance, she can't use it as if it were her own etc etc, but can she insure herself for a car she doesn't own? Or would I need to give her the money so the car was in her name. Interestingly a friend in the same situation said putting her daughter on her insurance or having her own made little difference to the cost. ie the loading for adding a teenage daughter was as much as getting her own. Will have to test that myself.
Anyway, back to the car. I hear what you say grantp, but I think there are some possibilities for a compatible car. I'm also thinking that it will only be for a couple of years until she's off to uni and then I'll give her the car and buy myself something else. So, fo example, I drove one of the new 1.2 Corsa's as a courtesy car two or three years ago and was impressed. I thought it would be gutless, but it was surprisingly spritely, probably because they don't weigh much.
After having the new one pointed out in the street, my daughter has also thawed a bit on the new shape Fiasta. I'm tempted by the newish Econetic (sp?). The 1.6 is tax exempt and does a gezillion to the gallon. Only trouble is they've only been out three or four years and are holding their value well. Perhaps a 1.3 petrol would be better fro a learner. As for a DS3, I would happily buy, just need to amputate 25 years first! Not keen on a Fiat, never driven a good one...

[peckstar]

If it was my teenage kid i would be getting them safest car i could.

Hospital beds and coffins are never cool, so why should their car be

[grantp]

Elder daughter's Punto was bought new when there was an offer around. Pre-registered sort of deal.

At the time (about 11 years ago now I suppose) it was about the best compromise one could get for a relatively modern car (from a safety POV at the time) that should be cheap to run and insure. She used it to get to school, a gap year and then on through University.

Mostly the car was OK. There was some dodgy paint but we never did get a fix. A 'replacement clutch' just out of warrant and near the end some problems with the headlights - a known issue apparently bit one that avoided the re-call requirement somehow. By that time she was about to get a car on a company supported scheme so the punto was sold with about 45k on the clock after 5 years and for about 25% of its purchase price to move it on quickly. She miht have got a little more for it but ... still relatively cheap motoring.

Insurance is a funniny thing and, to me looking at it as originally intended as a personal risk sharing mechanism, now totally distorted into something you have to provide other with compensation however they can squeeze it oout of you.

The costs, for females, are less good than they were thanks to the EU. Plus the regulations suggest that the insurance is for the main driver not the vehicle owner. Lots of opportunity for dodgy insurance companies to wheedle their way out of paying anything with that one.

If you have 2 cars there are some schemes around that will accomadate such a situation taking and NCD into accoount for the package. Traditionally this has not been the case. Despite most people only being able to drive one car at a time the NCD would only be accepted for one vehicle and if you bought another you started that one with no NCD. Of course you get screwed iof you have an incident in either of them ... but that's the insurance business for you.

The lady with the daughter who found there was little difference in her premiums may have been in that sort of area of insurance vagueness.

Iirc my daughter's 1st year policy (at 17 ) was around £1100 even back then but that dropped to something like £750 in year 2 and £600 or less by year 3. Much lower after age 21 (but shortly after she went onto the company lease scheme) and then again a drop at 25 (when she left the company lease scheme).

AFAIK she has only had one claim. Just after she got the lease car (about 3 weeks iirc) she had parked outside the house of some friends one night - country lane - and the next moring there was a dent in an A pillar and the remains of the glass bottle and the milk it had contained all over the car. My suspicion was that the local milkman had taken a nearby humped bridge a little too fast and dislodged a bottle as he passed. From the time the car was parked until it was found, given the location, the chances of yobbery being in play seemed small.

Anyway, she and her fiance have been working abroad for a couple of years. Just returned and bought cars anding up with a couple of not new high mileage 3 series BMWs. (I know not why ...) but the insurance for her 325d (08 plate) was, from memory, under £500 for both of them as drivers. They will, of course, be able to show a history of no claims - though it is spread about a bit and not entirely based on personal policies anyway.

BTW, the Punto, a 1.1, was surprisingly spritely ... in town up to about 30mph. After that ... not so much. Still, with all traffic on anything but motorways seemingly stuck at less than 40mph 99% of the time, would that matter? The one thing she will probably never learn about is overtaking - a lost driving art these days.

Not sure if it is still around but there used to be a young driver scheme based on the supply of a new car - therefore as safe, reliable and presumably maintenance cost free as you could get. However if you feel and shared car makes more sense at the moment that would probably not be an option. It would fir well with Peckstar's comment and our choice of new vs used 11 years ago was based on the same thinking. Much has changed in the past 10 years though so as long as you avoid a cut-and-shut (as favoured by young men who can't afford any insurance anyway) the level of safety for most available options is probably quite high.

Or, for a bit of off the wall thinking if you are to be the primary driver, a 9.3 Saab might work well for a couple of years ... (During the time she had the Punto my eldest worked on and off for a company that did private catering and ended up driving all sorts of quite large vans on the company policy. A regular White Van Girl. Never found it to be a problem. Size does not really matter.

Cheap to buy, can be maintained reasonably cost effectively (for a couple of years at least), comfortable and safe. Crazy I know, but ....

Just a thought.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

How about a Citroen DS3? I'm much older than you & it certainly appeals to me, but I don't think anyone would consider it an "old man's" car - looking at the "how old are you" polls on DS3 fora the median age of owners appears to be around 25. Same (petrol) engines as Minis, without the ugliness, & much better quality (speaking as someone who's suffered three Alfas) than anything made in Italy.

My opinion of Citroens was always that they were cheap & cheerful. With the DS they have managed to build a car with a real "quality" feel to it; two & a half years & 21,000 miles experience suggests that the beauty is more than skin deep . . . absolutely nothing's gone wrong. I've never had a car that's attracted more compliments in over 40 years of car ownership.

I like that idea.. for me.. except the dealer network here is patchy at best.. with a new importer as of earlier this year.

A yellow one was parked in front of me at the shopping centre last week... looked very nice..



A white one is pretty good too...



I guess you can pretend to be Sebastian Loeb

[garcon]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I guess you can pretend to be Sebastian Loeb

I suppose there is that, but then I remembered that Sebastian Loeb is an anagram of O lesbian beast...

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Ok, some good food for thought there. Grantp has some interesting advice about her building up NDC and keeping it clear of my own, but I'm not sure these days what the rule are about who is insured and who owns the car. I know that if it's my car and insurance, she can't use it as if it were her own etc etc, but can she insure herself for a car she doesn't own? Or would I need to give her the money so the car was in her name. Interestingly a friend in the same situation said putting her daughter on her insurance or having her own made little difference to the cost. ie the loading for adding a teenage daughter was as much as getting her own. Will have to test that myself.

Rule of thumb for insurance companies is declare everything truthfully. It doesn't matter who owns the car and who is the main driver as long as you don't try and scam them. If she's using it more then put her as main driver and it may even pay to register it in her name. For the cheapest companies for young drivers insurance go to Admiral or Elephant, but not Bell, they're all the same people. If you make her named driver then add a couple of other older people (you and Mrs P) with good driving records and you'll be surprised how much the premium tumbles.

As for a car a newish car wont be any dearer to insure than an older one, it's often cheaper tbh. Most cars now are safe so you really need a compromise of reliability and style. The new Ka and Fiestas are good, Mk3 Clios seem to be OK compared with the MK2, my daughter's one has been good so far. For ultimate reliability go for a Japanese car and if you do then Toyota is the way to go. Citreons are only good for one thing and that's rapid depreciation compared with everything else. Fiat 500s and Minis hold their prices because all the hairdressers and estate agents want them plus the Mini is a BMW so that's good enough reason to stay clear of them.

Good luck and welcome to the world of sleepless nights when she's out gallivanting in her P&J at your expense

[SALEEN S7R]

How about going for a new Fiesta or Clio? I've recently bought a new MK4 diesel clio and am extremely impressed with it all round.