Williams/BMW/Sauber/Honda rumours

[BSchneiderFan]

OK, these have, I'm sure, been covered elsewhere, but I thought I'd bring together a few rumours that have been flying around and see what people think they say about the next few years. The rumours that I can think of are as follows, and I make no judgement at the moment on their veracity:

1) BMW will supply Sauber with engines for 2006.

2) BMW will eventually buy into Sauber and run it as BMW Motorsport.

3) Williams will lose BMW power by 2007.

4) Williams will run Cosworth engines in 2006.

5) Williams will run Honda engines from 2007.

6) Nick Heidfeld will go to Sauber-BMW for 2006.

7) Patrick Head wants to sell his stake in Williams GPE.

8) David Richards wants to buy Patrick Head's stake.

OK, so what does it all mean? I think it's clear that BMW is at best ambivalent about its continuing relationship with Williams. The partnership hasn't delivered the results BMW was expecting (the results the engines deserved?), and Frank and Patrick are not happy about sellinge equity in the team to an engine manufacturer. It seems at least possible, perhaps probable, that Sauber will get BMW engines on some basis next year, and if Button goes to Williams I can see Heidfeld moving back to Sauber; there has always been an impression that he's the 'BMW man' at Williams. Now, it is said that Mario Theissen proposed to the BMW board in 2003 that they should create a factory F1 team, but was rebuffed; Sauber is now an attractive option, given the windtunnel, and a supply of engines for 2006 (along with giving Williams notice that their relationship will end at the close of 2006) could well be a precursor to Sauber becoming the works BMW squad, either as Sauber-BMW or else as BMW Motorsport.

The Williams/Honda link-up is harder to fathom. Honda, after all, owns a minority share of BAR, so, unless it was to divest itself of that, it wouldn't make much sense to hook up with another team except on a purely customer basis. That said... Williams/Honda, Button being a Williams driver and David Richards looking to buy into Williams have the whiff of a bigger story about them. Honda must know that DR has brought them more success than anyone else to date (since they came back to F1 in 2000), and perhaps they see Button leading a Williams-Honda charge overseen by David Richards as their best bet for a world championship.

Complicated, complicated. Thoughts?

[Glen]

Williams Honda - I'm not normally a sucker for nostalgia but that does sound good to me. With a British driver, for the full "remember the Mansell years" effect.

Maybe BMW could be crazy enough to buy Honda out of BAR..?

[BSchneiderFan]

Hmm, swapsies. Interesting idea. BAR-BMW sounds confusing; though, BAT will presumably be wanting to sell up soon. BMW could do worse than inheriting Geoff Willis and the BAR infrastructure.

[ActiveMS]

Sounds like good business sense to me.
If Honda has the money, why not supply a second team with engines and get DR to help manage and put button in one of the driving seats.

This way they hedge their bets on an each way. At least probability would be in their favour with their name associated with two very capable teams.

Bring it on.........

[BSchneiderFan]

Hedging their bets would make sense if they didn't actually own part of BAR. But if Williams proved more successful and they wanted to part company with BAR, they'd have to sell their equity rather than just stopping the supply of engines.

[Kirk]

Didn't I read somewhere that Toyota, or should I say Lexus-Toyota were also in talks with Williams?

If I had to guess how all this will turn out, I'd say point 1, 2, 3 and possibly 6 are the most likely. Based on the continued and persistent rumours, seems the only real question is: Exactly when will BMW buy into Sauber and run it as BMW Motorsport? It likely will take a few years to get there, me thinks.

[djinvicta]

Sorry, I cant see FW working next to DR and being buddies..

[-->>Diesel<<--]

If Honda decide to supply engines to Williams it will only be on a customer basis, and the only real reason for doing it is the fact that Button is heading to Williams. Any engines Williams recieve will be stable basic customer engines, no brand new power upgrades or developement parts, those all go to BAR. BAR will turn into Honda F1 in 2006 anyway, with tobacco advertising being banned soon BAT will have no use for the team and sell it as quick as possible. Honda already own 45% of BAR so it seems logical they buy the rest. Someone might step in at the last minute and buy up the 55% to keep BAR going.

[Raglanparade]

Wasn't there a crazy rumor of Proton out of Malaysia buying a team outright/or purchasing a stake in a team, and Re-branding it Lotus.

[emjaya]

Mark Webber was on R.P.M. Sunday afternoon (Oz time) talking about his chances ()in the European GP.He looked bored, almost surly at times.The Engine rumours were mentioned and not denied.By his clichés it sounded like B.M.W is going.

[LampCord]

Why don't Honda and / or BMW just go ahead and make their own chasis like Toyota, Renault and Ferrari?

Doesn't seem they could do worse. They've both had among the most powerfull engines in F1 for a long time but been held back by mediocre chasis, IMO.

McLaren Mercedes is a different story. In that case it seems the chasis has been superb but the engine only above average untill this year.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by LampCord

Why don't Honda and / or BMW just go ahead and make their own chasis like Toyota, Renault and Ferrari?

Doesn't seem they could do worse. They've both had among the most powerfull engines in F1 for a long time but been held back by mediocre chasis, IMO.

See - that's what I'm talking about. If the thing that Williams lack is chassis/aero performance, how come they do well at circuits that reward chassis and aerodynamic prowess? Common misconception. Engine power is a very small piece of the puzzle.

Toyota have spent about two billion dollars to get just to where they are now - "just go ahead and make your own chassis" sounds simple, but the truth is that is simplistic (and wrong) thinking.

[Logrence]

The Williams-Honda thing made me prick my ears up, but together with Patrick wanting to leave (doesn't surprise me, he hasn't been getting on with Frank for a good while) and Richards wanting to buy his stake - it's like one of those trite cartoons where someone sits on a desert island and it turns out to be a huge sea monster.

This one could go places...

[Mike_Wooshy]

everyone is forgetting something .... IF (big if) Honda were to suply engines to Williams and have DR run things surely Button wouldnt want to work there, considering the fact DR didnt pay Button last year, when he was at BAR. (well he did just not on time. IIRC)

[Logrence]

They didn't get on, but Jenson isn't that stupid.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by LampCord

Why don't Honda and / or BMW just go ahead and make their own chasis like Toyota, Renault and Ferrari?

Honda did try it in the late 90's.
But their designer died the year before their car would enter the competitioned.
Therefore, the project was abandoned.

[Dixie Flatline]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

OK, these have, I'm sure, been covered elsewhere, but I thought I'd bring together a few rumours that have been flying around and see what people think they say about the next few years. The rumours that I can think of are as follows, and I make no judgement at the moment on their veracity:

1) BMW will supply Sauber with engines for 2006.

2) BMW will eventually buy into Sauber and run it as BMW Motorsport.

3) Williams will lose BMW power by 2007.

4) Williams will run Cosworth engines in 2006.

5) Williams will run Honda engines from 2007.

6) Nick Heidfeld will go to Sauber-BMW for 2006.

7) Patrick Head wants to sell his stake in Williams GPE.

8) David Richards wants to buy Patrick Head's stake.

OK, so what does it all mean? I think it's clear that BMW is at best ambivalent about its continuing relationship with Williams. The partnership hasn't delivered the results BMW was expecting (the results the engines deserved?), and Frank and Patrick are not happy about sellinge equity in the team to an engine manufacturer. It seems at least possible, perhaps probable, that Sauber will get BMW engines on some basis next year, and if Button goes to Williams I can see Heidfeld moving back to Sauber; there has always been an impression that he's the 'BMW man' at Williams. Now, it is said that Mario Theissen proposed to the BMW board in 2003 that they should create a factory F1 team, but was rebuffed; Sauber is now an attractive option, given the windtunnel, and a supply of engines for 2006 (along with giving Williams notice that their relationship will end at the close of 2006) could well be a precursor to Sauber becoming the works BMW squad, either as Sauber-BMW or else as BMW Motorsport.

The Williams/Honda link-up is harder to fathom. Honda, after all, owns a minority share of BAR, so, unless it was to divest itself of that, it wouldn't make much sense to hook up with another team except on a purely customer basis. That said... Williams/Honda, Button being a Williams driver and David Richards looking to buy into Williams have the whiff of a bigger story about them. Honda must know that DR has brought them more success than anyone else to date (since they came back to F1 in 2000), and perhaps they see Button leading a Williams-Honda charge overseen by David Richards as their best bet for a world championship.

Complicated, complicated. Thoughts?

Can I ask you why you think there's an impression that Nick Heidfeld is a BMW man? Is it just because he's German? You may recall that Nick was originally contracted to Mercedes and hence was apparently a bit miffed when McLaren took Kimi to replace Mika instead of Nick a few years ago. Furthermore, Sir Frank and Patrick chose Nick after a series of tests against Pizzonia in the off-season. Sir Frank reputedly took a night to think about the decision, then went with Nick over Antonio, but the decision would have been a tight one to make, I think.

I, for one, certainly don't have an impression that Heidfeld is a "BMW man", but simply Sir Frank's choice as the best available man for the job (even better than Mika, who according to this month's F1 Racing magazine impressed Sam Michael and Patrick Head when he met with the Williams trio).

[GTRMagic]

When Mr Webber or Mr Heidfeld win a couple of races, perhaps the tensions will be eased a little???

[Skam85]

Yes, as it always does

Williams-Honda, BAR-BMW seems like an attractive option, but where does that leave Sato? Williams? BAR? Out of F1?

I don't see Webber leaving Williams for a long time. So that's one seat.

What about this rumour or Williams going to Bridgestone?

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline

Can I ask you why you think there's an impression that Nick Heidfeld is a BMW man? Is it just because he's German? You may recall that Nick was originally contracted to Mercedes and hence was apparently a bit miffed when McLaren took Kimi to replace Mika instead of Nick a few years ago. Furthermore, Sir Frank and Patrick chose Nick after a series of tests against Pizzonia in the off-season. Sir Frank reputedly took a night to think about the decision, then went with Nick over Antonio, but the decision would have been a tight one to make, I think.

I, for one, certainly don't have an impression that Heidfeld is a "BMW man", but simply Sir Frank's choice as the best available man for the job (even better than Mika, who according to this month's F1 Racing magazine impressed Sam Michael and Patrick Head when he met with the Williams trio).

Well, it's my impression; Mario Theissen was quoted as saying that the nationality of the second driver wasn't critical, but that his being German wouldn't do any harm. I also have a suspicion, but no more than that, that BMW were keen to get one over on Mercedes-Benz after Werner Laurenz went to MB and Montoya went to McLaren, and that the idea of rehabilitating McLaren/Mercedes-Benz's discarded protege appealed to them.

[Rennen]

[QUOTE=BSchneiderFan]

The Williams/Honda link-up is harder to fathom. Honda, after all, owns a minority share of BAR, QUOTE]

45%..."Minority"?...only if ONE share owner controls 55%!

[DKGandBH]

Minority...as in not Majority...

DKGanDBH

[Logrence]

BAT hold the majority share of BAR. Or else I suspect it would be called 'Honda'.

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by Rennen

45%..."Minority"?...only if ONE share owner controls 55%!

No. Honda could own 45% and every other shareholders could own just 1% each, and Honda would still own a minority share of the team.

[lookleft]

Originally Posted by Logrence

They didn't get on, but Jenson isn't that stupid.

On which of his actions over the past 10 months do you base that statement? Maybe not all Jensons fault and he has changed management but it's hardly been a period of sensibility.... Always easier to point the finger at someone else.