24 hours at Daytona rules

[gttouring]

I was reading the Grand American Road RAcing site about the new GA rules. How can someone succefully kill one of the greatest races ever? Daytona 24 had history and world attention- now it is clear it sucks. NO Prototypes? only six LMP675 or srII, and a ridiculous 6 "top tier" DSP's, but that can be forgiven- merging GT and GTS what in the universe? The complaint from officials was that a non-prototype car won the 24 in00 and 01- ofcourse these were GTS cars and the all conquering Vipers and then the mighty corvettes, having slightly slower than protypes and fully bred race machines being tougher than anyhting GTS class cars always fight for and endurance win is part of the charm. Slowing these cars down is ridiculous. merging with the production based GT is preposterous. "the gt rules are the same as gt rules in every major sanctioning body around the world" maybe so- but GTS is thrown in there? and the old AGT tube frame cars there as well? Why kill the prototypes? except that this will make ALMS the best around? does any one know what they were thinking- the GARR management makes no sense to me.

[cybersdorf]

If you want to know what Roger E. is thinking, there is an interesting Q&A on the GA site - www.grand-am.com
(nice hat Mr. E!)

[gttouring]

oh i saw that but what was he thinking?

[LouisTheShark]

It's worth pointing out that some of the people in Grand American were involved with brining IMSA to life. They have seen the ups and downs of this sport and how manufacturer manipulation can kill competition and the sport. I am not sure how the GTS and GT cars are supposed to be combined, that will be an interesting trick. But I want to see where this DSP class is going to go. This is a better start than the WSC cars had, the basis for the LMP cars. Many of the first WSC cars were just GTP cars with cut-off roofs.

I think the 2003 Daytona 24 hours could be one of the best races in a long time and I hope the final count of cars will turn out to be around 50. Daytona has always been more of a Pro/Am race than any other race in the world.

[gttouring]

good on ya- i never thought of the big picture, but for that same thought the Euroc open tops could be entered as daytona sports racers i reckon then...where and how did Grand-Am revive IMSA? wasn't it Panoz and the ALMS?

[Fogelhund]

Louis - GTS/AGT will be eliminated, not merged, GT will be the same rules as the rest of the world... two classes DP and GT.

[LouisTheShark]

IMSA was founded in 1969 by John Bishop with the help of Bill France, Sr. (NASCAR). The Camel sponsorship is often credited as being one of the France family's major contributions to IMSA. IMSA was sold in 1989 by Bishop and the France family and during the 90's it went through a succession of owners. In 1998 it aligned itself with Panoz and the fledgling ALMS. Because the ALMS aligned itself with the ACO/LeMans, many U.S. competitors felt uneasy about a relationship with an organization located outside of the U.S. Also, the France family had little interest in running the Daytona 24 hour race with rules Made In France. With the support of a number of competitors, the SCCA along with the France family revived the USRRC name and started a seperate sports car series in the U.S. For a a variety of reasons, and both sides blame each other, the marriage did not work.

In 1999 the France family decided to go it alone and formed Grand American Road Racing Association. They did parade a list of ISC insiders as partners, but basically this is a France family venture. The France family went back to familiar sports car people such as John Bishop (founder of IMSA), Mark Raffauf (President of IMSA), and several other folks with knowledge and history of the sport. Bishop and Raffauf were also the architects of the WSC formula and Bishop was the creator of the GTP era. In the old days, IMSA often lead the way in the creating rules and regulations that others followed. Raffauf was part of this growth at IMSA. Bishops's involvment in Grand American is as commissioner and probably more on a consultancy but the DSP class is being brought to birth by Raffauf. Roger Edmondson was brought into the mix to provide a business foundation for the new series. His past experience came from building the AMA (Amercian Motorcycle Associaton) from the ground up.

I don't think any of the principals at Grand American really believed Panoz would hang on this long. In the 90s, a number of IMSA owners entered and left the sport because motorsports was a hobby, not a business to them. It was obvious Panoz was spending a lot of money on his series and basically out-marketed Grand American. He looked like another hobbiest that will eventually tire of the money drain. But instead he got the fans back that sports car racing left in dust in the late 90s. It did cost him a good penny and it appears the series is still in the red.

Grand American was trying to work within the original WSC rules which did cap technology. But the ACO evolved the WSC rules further from the original rules and it created the problem that constructors such as Lola, Reynard, Riley & Scott were forced to look at building cars that could compete by both sets of rules. At the same time Audi pushed the bar in LMP beyond what those constructors could reasonable achieve with limited interest by privateers to purchase cars. The FIA became increasingly concerned over a number of horrific looking accidents of these open cockpit cars. A movement began to look for answers on both sides of the Atlantic.

Initially, the FIA and Grand American both favored closed cockpit cars and reducing the power and remove high tech aero packages to slow the cars down. It was the simple solution, but it in the eyes of the ACO and Audi, it was too simple. Audi apparently showed the FIA internal reports on a variety of aero packages but refused to share the information officially for competitive reasons. The FIA was also trying to find a solution to its underperforming sports car championship. It seemed logical to try to come up with a set of rules that could be used at Le Mans and in the FIA Sports Car Championship. The ACO and FIA decided to work toward a common set of rules that could work for both and address the safety concerns. Among one of the first steps was a reduction in power by 10% for 2003 with many other changes in 2004. The 2004 ACO/FIA rules are basically finalized but not official.

The folks in Daytona, knowing full well the past history of the ACO and FIA and considering what appeared to be manufacturer manipulation of the rules again, decided to go their own way. Hence the DSP concept was born. It also provided them with a significantly different looking car than the open cockpit sports cars which they hope will result in better series recognition.

Just recently we have seen the first results of both directions. The DSP cars are slower than the SRP cars in 2002. The original goal of the WSC cars was mid 1:40s around Daytona and the first WSC cars ran high 40s. The stated goal for the DSP cars is 1:45 and the first cars ran high 40s. Unofficial timing from Sebring tests seems to show that cars with the 10% power restriction are running about the same lap times as in 2002. If this trend continues in official time trials, the FIA has to wonder what happened to their goal to slow the cars down.

As always, sports cars will be interesting to watch over the next few years.

[LouisTheShark]

Fogelhund - I did think that too until I read Roger Edmondson's Q&A. He made several references about bringing or merging the GTS class into the GT class. I am a little confused by his answers on this subject and hopefully in the next few weeks I will find out more.

[gttouring]

thanks for the history - I still don't agree with GA having 2 classes- the more the merrier. if we could get the slower supertrucks in these enduro and all 4 classes then it would be a sight
ha

[LouisTheShark]

I should add - The financial health of IMSA is in debate. Many fans feel the series has turned the corner, while some published stories in the last month have indicated otherwise. IMSA in an open letter to IMSA stakeholders admited to some cash flow issues, but they did not specify about their overall financial health. Having cash flow issues does not necessarly mean they are loosing money.

It should also be noted that Grand American is helped very much by season ticket sales of many of the ISC tracks they visit. They do need to grow beyond being just another event at these tracks.

[veeten]

Louis, enlighten me on those "horrific looking accidents" with the open cockpit cars. I do remember the problems that the MG/Lola had with overheating engines, but the only ones that are in recent history were the backflips of the Mercedes CLK-GTR and Porsche 911 GT1. Outside of the usual impacts or bumps with tire walls, there wasn't much.

You've seemed to leave out the BMW LMPV12, that won LeMans in '99 only after the Toyota GT-1 blew a tire in the waning hours of the event. Audi only became a winner in 2000, and still had to deal with the BMW, Panoz, and others. And remember, the R8 wasn't competing in the FIA-SCC, since Mangoletsi wasn't too keen on manufacturer participation in the series.

As for the "reports" on the ALMS, since they came originally from National Speed Sports News, it doesn't surprise me that certain folks will use it as a means to devalue what Panoz has done, seeing as over the last three seasons ALMS has done more in aspects of venues, TV coverage, and Public Relations. And judging by the number of returning teams and the recent rules with the ACO/ALMS/FIA comming more together, it seems to be working.

[Lee Janotta]

Well, there was Alboreto's fatal crash at the Lausitzring in an R8.

There was a fatal crash in the Grand-Am's SRP II class at Homestead last year.

Then again, the picture below is considered a very ugly crash by European standards.

Though perhaps we're just a bit desensitized after decades of watching huge wrecks on ovals...

Personally, I think the Grand-Am series is just an attempt to hold back the growth of sports car racing.

If IMSA is to be profitable, their best chance is in a close alliance with CART.

Y'know, there was a plan a decade ago for IMSA to take over professional rallying in the US. Given the complete inepitude of the SCCA (who's ProRally calendar is shrinking as the rallying fan base and manufacturer interest are exploding), maybe it's time to bring back that idea!

[MaxSport]

"If IMSA is to be profitable, their best chance is in a close alliance with CART."

Sure it is.

[RoyRobbins]

So why are u a ALMS fan suddenly. Makin more money there?

[LouisTheShark]

Veeten - you did leave out a number of accidents as mentioned in another post. The other accident of note is the BMW flip at the Petit Le Mans. I believe that is the one that really got the FIA working toward change.

When the Mercedes flipped twice at Le Mans, the FIA grilled the ACO on the circumstances of the accidents. The FIA believed the ACO allowed Mercedes to participate in the race with a blind eye toward safety. Mercedes was a major sponsor that year at Le Mans.

Open cockpit WSC spec cars were believed to be safer and less suspect to the same issues as a close cockpit car. But the first hint of trouble came with Robinson Racing's Reynard which flipped in testing in Texas. Since this was a private test, there was no much data on the incident. Then the BMW flipped at the Petit Le Mans, almost hitting a spectator fence. After that incident the FIA started to look at the ACO rules of the LMP cars. The ACO had evolved the WSC rules to allow for more design freedom, i.e. more complex aero packages. Audi, after having spent millions of Dollars in research and design, did not want their investment wiped out by some newly mandated rules and presented the FIA with internal research to show that the current aero packages are safe, if applied properly. But they did not want to share this research with others, so the FIA forged a deal with the ACO to try to write new rules for 2004 that would address their safety concerns and still keep the teams with newly developed chassis happy. The ACO main concern was Audi because they represented a major contribution to the yearly sponsorship income at Le Mans.

The FIA over the year has mandated to the ACO a variety of changes to the track and the rules because the ACO historically has always been manipulated by manufacturers. At the same time the FIA also wants to keep the ACO from expanding in Europe by way of Panoz and needs some help with its FIA Sports Car Championship. This is why they did agree to accept some of the ACO rules over the last few years to interest Le Mans competitors to also run in the FIA Sports Car Championship.

How long this courtship will stay happy is uncertain. The FIA understands it has little influence in the United States and whatever Panoz plans does here is of little interest to them. However, they want to control sports car racing in Europe and by forging an alliance with the ACO, they feel they can better control the situation in Europe. This is especially true if you consider some of the anti-trust issues that have surfaced in Europe regarding the FIA. From a political point of view, it is better to find solutions with the ACO then to continue to battle them. I believe that is why the FIA has stepped back from its original philosophy to turn open cockpit sports cars into closed cockpit cars. It was too drastic of a change that the ACO was not going along with.

To address the finances of the ALMS, I hope you did read my follow up post that did address the issue in a little more detail. There is no way for any of us to know for sure who is making money and who isn't. However, I believe that neither side is on the black side of the ledger.

[veeten]

But that's just it, a number of those teams that ran in the 24hrs. of LeMans already race in the FIA-SCC, as well as the 12hrs of Sebring and the PLM in ALMS.

And as for the new rules, it just stipulates that it won't be long before there will be a couple of selected races that will be run in conjunction with ALMS teams on the FIA's home soil. After all, by chosing to enter into a rules deal with the ACO, it will end up with Panoz' participation by default, seeing as ALMS was designed with and are using ACO's rules as a basis for their existance. Combined with their recent contract to extend their present relationship, it seems that ALMS/ACO has the better of this deal, even if/when they decide to return to closed-cockpit cars.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by veeten
You've seemed to leave out the BMW LMPV12, that won LeMans in '99 only after the Toyota GT-1 blew a tire in the waning hours of the event. Audi only became a winner in 2000, and still had to deal with the BMW, Panoz, and others.

Actually, the R8 did not have to deal with the LMRV12, as BMW inexplicably chose not to defend their title. They did, however, race the ALMS schedule that year. (?) Which brings me to...

Lee, that picture - Mosport 2000. I was just transferring the Speedvision coverage of that race to Video CD. Possibly the most exciting ALMS races I've seen on TV, and I was there! Just one of those things, where the coverage team got everything - every detail - right. That was when Audi really got on the rails - they had just won Le Mans, Sears Point, and just hung on to beat BMW at Mosport - another lap and Muller would have overhauled Dindo. It also signalled pretty much the end of ORECA's free reign in GTS, with the Corvette very nearly beating them.

LtS, great summary of the recent history of GARRA and PSCR/IMSA. Hi Kurt!

[MulsanneMike]

Regarding Robinson's Reynard accident in testing in early '00 at Texas. The car didn't flip. The Reynard had a rear wing mount failure and subsequently slid tail first. The resulting loss of downforce at the rear and spin lifted the rear end of the car off the track and set it back down gently. Reynard's response were strengthened rear wing mounts, seen here at Daytona '00:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/wingmount.htm

[LouisTheShark]

Mike - I had heard from a Robinson team member that the car actually flipped. But then this was 2 years after the fact and maybe a typical exaggeration of the facts. Racing stories are like fishing stories, they get bet better with time.

[Speeddemon555]

Speaking of flips, remember the GT1 cars of Porsche and Mercedes back in the late 90's where their cars were fast, but the aerodynamics were sleeks that it began to flip the car in the air. The scariest crash was at the 24 Hours of LeMans back in '97 where a Mercedes GT1 car flipped up in the air and crashed into the trees. The driver came out ok afterwards and the team parked the other one due to safety concerns.

[Bob C.]

Lee, that picture - Mosport 2000. I was just transferring the Speedvision coverage of that race to Video CD. Possibly the most exciting ALMS races I've seen on TV, and I was there! Just one of those things, where the coverage team got everything - every detail - right. That was when Audi really got on the rails - they had just won Le Mans, Sears Point, and just hung on to beat BMW at Mosport - another lap and Muller would have overhauled Dindo. It also signalled pretty much the end of ORECA's free reign in GTS, with the Corvette very nearly beating them.

I agree, Paul, Mosport 2000 was easily the most exciting ALMS race I've witnessed. As Capello and Mueller rounded the last turn, everyone in the Media Center spontaneously rose to their feet, rushed to the window, and cheered. The scene was repeated seconds later when the Viper and Vette flashed by. That race had everything: heavy rain, great battles in every major class, key wrecks, great fans, beautiful track...

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

[paul-collins]

Welcome, Bob. Nice pic. Where did you take it?

[MulsanneMike]

Yes, often times what you consider a "flip" and what some one esles considers a flip are different. When the Cadillac was testing a VIR mid-'00, the rear bodywork came off the car and the car spun at high speed. The corner workers were adamant the car "flipped". No such thing actually happened.

And the Mercedes CLR flipped in '99 at Le Mans.

[Speeddemon555]

Yep, I looked at the Entry list for the Daytona 24 Hour Race and it consist of

5 DP
5 SRPII
14 GTS
17 GT

41 cars in all and maybe more to come in the DP category.

[Graham Goodwin]

One more DSP to add - The Barber Doran-Chevy