|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
16 Jun 2006, 12:35 (Ref:1635793) | #1 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,982
|
Coupes from 2010
According to a reasonably substantial report in Autosport the rumour about LMP1 going down the Coupe-only route is fact as of 2010. All other chassis/engine rules will remain the same.
Not entirely certain if I'm really pleased or a touch disappointed yet - first impression is probably the former, but you never know... |
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 13:14 (Ref:1635804) | #2 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
From Speed TV.
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/alms/26627/ Quote:
|
|||
|
16 Jun 2006, 13:28 (Ref:1635813) | #3 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 428
|
Wonder what Audi mgiht think about this one. :\
|
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 13:28 (Ref:1635814) | #4 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,714
|
I don't see why they can't just tweak the existing rules to make closed top cars more viable? They could do this effective 2007/2008. All current cars are still competitive. New cars have the option to go either way..
|
|
|
16 Jun 2006, 13:41 (Ref:1635816) | #5 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,982
|
Quote:
In any case, as the chassis rules remain the same it shouldn't be impossible to design an R10 with coupe bodywork. I know it's more than 20 years ago but Joest have experience of turning an open car into a coupe with their 936 in 1982. |
|||
|
16 Jun 2006, 13:44 (Ref:1635819) | #6 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
|
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 13:55 (Ref:1635825) | #7 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 45
|
Is there any difference between a closed top and an open top? Why do the manufacturers prefer open ones?
|
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 13:56 (Ref:1635826) | #8 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,739
|
From a purely selfish viewpoint I will be sad to see the departure of the open-tops from the premier class. However I can see how it will help the general public differenciate the different classes.
|
||
__________________
A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !" |
16 Jun 2006, 13:56 (Ref:1635827) | #9 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
On racing1.de I also read the rear wing will be made smaller to make the cars slower
|
|
|
16 Jun 2006, 14:06 (Ref:1635831) | #10 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
Why does everybody build open ones? Closed ones are more difficult (so expensive) to design because of the cockpit: fogging of windscreen if it rains, heat if it is hot (obligatory air conditioning), the doors, ... |
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 14:11 (Ref:1635836) | #11 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 627
|
As a fan I really like the way the coupes look. But it concerns me that the ACO constantly change the rules. I think this really discourages development of new cars because manufacturers don't want to spend R&D money on a car that is ruled obsolete in 2 or 3 years.
This could really hurt the number of manufacturers entering into the sport. I want sportscar to return to multiple factory efforts competing, and I am not sure this is the way to do that. Just my 2 cents. |
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 14:30 (Ref:1635849) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,349
|
Real cars have roofs.
I've never enjoyed the open top prototypes from an aesthetic point of view so this news has made my day. |
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 14:30 (Ref:1635850) | #13 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,982
|
Quote:
The ACO is also pretty good at slowly phasing in these sort of rules. That's why they're looking at 2010 for the coupe only restriction. It basically means that if I was starting an LMP project now and wanted to go down the open car route I could legitimately think about having a car that could have a gestation year in 07, be fully competitive in 08/09, and I could either sell it on to a grandfathered series (JLMC for example), convert it to LMP2, put a coupe body onto it, or regard it as having done a decent job and put it in the museum. The other key which tips this into the "good idea" category for me is that it puts some clear daylight between LMP1 and 2, which we haven't really had for a very long time. If they were proposing that barchettas would disappear entirely from Le Mans then I would be very sad - diversity is what make Le Mans great - but they're still there in LMP2 as a perfectly valid proposition. |
|||
|
16 Jun 2006, 14:47 (Ref:1635861) | #14 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 428
|
But where did I hear about R10's 10-year long lifespan?
|
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 14:47 (Ref:1635863) | #15 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,710
|
The lifetime of four year cant be a problem for Audi, the Bentley had a smaller lifetime
Think they are able to use a mix of Bentley EXP8 and R10 for 2007 if they want. Maybe its even possible to get the LMP1 crash test with the EXP8 tube, all other things didnt realy change for a closed car if you look at the tube only |
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:01 (Ref:1635869) | #16 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Quote:
With competition you'd expected major chassis changes every 3, at most 4 years. Looks at Mercedes, CLK - CLKLM - CLR, 3 new cars in 3 years. Even P2 teams are upgrading at regular intervals, Belmondo for example will be ditching the C65 for the LC75 next year. If you read the statement it also quite clearly says the bottom chassis and engines will remain the same, so development work on a current car could be carried over to a new one. IMO, this is fantastic news. |
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:06 (Ref:1635875) | #17 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Quote:
As the years go by, wings will become smaller, but the teams will gain back the downforce with development. 10-15 years down the line cars may have no more than a gurney type device, yet still be as quick as a current car. BTW, just read the rear wings will be based on the GT1 regs. By this do they mean the width of the windscreen, i.e. the changes that gave the Saleens so many issues. Last edited by JAG; 16 Jun 2006 at 15:11. |
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:14 (Ref:1635880) | #18 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 241
|
Is the weight limit still going to be 925 kg? I know Audi had a tough time getting under 900 kg. So a roofed car through common sense will probably weigh more.
|
|
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:24 (Ref:1635887) | #19 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
The increase from 900 to 925 kg was because of the obligatory air conditioner for closed cars. I doubt they will increase the weight again.
The weight of the Bentley was close to minimum. So if the A/C really weighs around 25 kg, they could have gone to 925 kg. However, diesel cars will also have a harder time getting there, especially when running with a roof. The Audi R10 currently is 35 kg too heavy. |
|
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:27 (Ref:1635892) | #20 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,936
|
i think this is a cynical move in a way to attract more big manufacturers back to lemans, its been a dry past 5/6 years for big manufacturers in LMP1, since 2000 the only major big LMP1 manufacturers have been audi, bentley, panoz and cadillac which is pretty poor were many big manufacturers like ferrari, porsche, aston martin, chevrolet have concentrated on their GT1 and or GT2 campaigns so i think this closed regs rule will bring back some big lemans names especially from the japanese pack such as toyota, nissan, honda who are already making their LMP2 which will debut soon into an LMP1 and also i feel we could see a return of renault and mercedes and BMW on the horizon soon with these new regs and the promise of diesel and alternative fuels putting a lot of limelight on sportscars at the moment
|
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:31 (Ref:1635899) | #21 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Coups + alternative fules = more manufactuers.
Cynical, who cares, seems common sense to me. At a stroke they give the fans great looking cars, make the engines relevant to future road cars, and make a clear distinction between P1 and P2. The protoype scene makes a lot more sense to the general public after this announcement. |
|
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:43 (Ref:1635911) | #22 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,936
|
i morely meant cynical in the good way than the bad way, i cant wait till these rules come in because i think the cars will be quicker in astraight line overall and also you are right, there will be a more clear distinction between LMP1 and LMP2, i wont like the fact that some of the smaller good teams like pescarolo would be snuffed out as well as creation but these teams could maybe buy a car from a big manufacturer which would be great news and also i think in a few years barazi epsilon in LMP2 could very well be in LMP1 after their fantastic pace and reliability in the LMP2 category i love those guys lol
|
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:53 (Ref:1635914) | #23 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,181
|
Agreeing with roofed cars adding new makes
Have to agree the makin LMP1 a closed top class will add more makes into the mix. Might we even get Ferrari to spread a little of the now no longer so dominant F1 money back into prototype racing, and get to see a 599/FXX derived prototype car running Le Mans? Or GM building a Corvette new Sting Ray based LMP1, if supercharging is allowed on that big (7.0L I believe is the concept) an engine in prototypes (not idea on the limits other than 5.5 L diesels, but think its around 4.0L turbo'd?) But the claim that the public has to identify with the closed top cars more readily is just stupid to the highest degree, they really can NOT believe that line, I hope. But would be cool to see more powerful closed top cars leading with smaller engines open tops buzzing around trying to keep up but outhandling them.
|
|
|
16 Jun 2006, 15:54 (Ref:1635915) | #24 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Relating strictly to the ALMS, I would speculate that they will extend their grandfathering phase, allowing privateers to run closed tops through to 2012. That kind of shelf-life isn't all bad.
It would be nice if they'd mandate LMP2's to be open topped, to keep a clear differentiator in the classes. |
||
|
16 Jun 2006, 16:01 (Ref:1635918) | #25 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,181
|
Sorry second post
Second quick thought though, arent the LMP2 chassis pretty much upgradable to LMP1 spec with a new engine? Wouldn't that limit some the introduction of new small teams to try out the smaller before moving up. And what now of Acura's plan to poach the best ideas from courage and (cant remember the other make) to build their LMP1 car, obviously those ideas won't carry over anymore if they build a car for more then 2 seasons. Or do we think they could do an open car and then a closed top cover for the same chassis? Sorry for the multiple posts but finally time of for Le Mans so tuned to Radio Le Mans almost nonstop now and reading all the news I can catch, feel WAY behind though not havin Motorstv here so now tv coverage til sat mornin at 930 am US eastern
|
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Champ Car extends contract with Edmonton until 2010 | drewdawg727 | ChampCar World Series | 7 | 20 Nov 2005 19:03 |
...Tassie...on the map ;-/ ...until 2010... | retro | Australasian Touring Cars. | 19 | 17 Nov 2005 03:10 |
V8SC in Darwin beyond 2010 | Kerri | Australasian Touring Cars. | 9 | 29 Nov 2004 07:46 |
Coupes in the DTM | Mopar | Touring Car Racing | 4 | 4 Dec 2003 11:04 |
Australian GP to stay in Melbourne until 2010 | Andy H | Trackside | 4 | 18 Aug 2000 11:32 |