Skaife - Who really made the Black Flag call?

[RaceTime]

OK guys - read and frame - I was wrong (yep - I admit it).

Full details will come out shortly, but - the V8 Steward, Garth Wigston, WAS the person respondible for giving Skaife the black flag.

Paul Taylor, the AVESCO V8 category technical manager had, from my information, looked at Skaifes car, looked at how far the door was opening and decided, based on these observation and his knowledge of the car, that the door was NOT a problem and therefore advised the Race Director (and, I am preseuming the CofC) that the car was OK to continue and did not need to be brought in.

The information I have (and I believe will be fully documented shortly in an HRT media release) is that Garth Wigston then decided to override the V8 Technical Officer, and 'ordered' that Skaife be brought in to 'have the door fixed'.

I am also advised that both the Paul Taylor and Tim Schenken (Race Director) disagreed with this call but they were over-ruled by Wigston.

My personal coment on this is that this reinforces my previous statements that the stewards in this country are far too involved in the actual running of these races and it is about time that their involvement was completely overhauled. This isn;'t the first time that a steward has interfered with the running of a race - but maybe it is about time that both CAMS and AVESCO took the bull by the horns and locked these guys in a windowless, radioless, TVless and PAless room to do what they should be there to do - adjudicate on charges brought by the Clerk of Course.

[GTRMagic]

Should you mention the advance party from each of the Ford teams still trying to achieve 2004 factory backing that tormented Race Control to the extent that the black flag was eventually issued??

Amazing what some people will do to get money isnt it

[RaceTime]

Not sure what influence they may or may not have had on Wigstons call - I guess the whole point here is that what has transpired redefines the judicial role in Australian motorsport.

Who received what and how much? I wasn't implying anything there and I am certainly not passing comment on the possibility.

[GTRMagic]

I didnt say that exactly, more that some fairly agreeable Ford teams were instructed specifically by someone inside the Ford network to get up to Race Control to make some action happen with the protest against Skaife.

Notably one or two with a conscience and backbone didnt comply!

You dont find it funny that the officials left the Skaife car to flap for over an hour, yet when the stream of people complaining began getting serious, that the decision was reached??

That HRT didnt stickytape it up under the safety car when they had the chance, or indeed at their fuel/tyre stop, is the bad luck of their own making!

[protoge]

Leaving it up to one person to make the call makes no sense at all. Should they not have a dedicated board who can review the situation and make a call based on majority rule? One person shows bias and may not have the neccesary skills and/or facts on the situation.
Either that or have a post race enquiry with an appropriate penalty handed out afterwards. If the enquiry actually finds nothing to penalise, then at least they havent ruined a teams chances of victory.
The championship is now effectively over for Skaife/HRT, who could have had a chance to defend their position. If so, the gap to Marcos would have closed by around 40-50 points. Surely it is not the decision of one man to make this call, particularly when the race director himself and other high ranking officials disagreed with it.

[GTRMagic]

It didnt help that the whole of the grandstand on the pit straight went up as one in cheer when the #1 car was brought in for the blag flag offence

[Onlooker]

Maybe the guy that lightened the locks on that car got a bit carried away.Road car doors are designed to be burst proof,V8's use these locks in a very cut up and modified form.When you lighten something you always take the risk of overdoing it.HRT probally didn't factor in a hit like that and hence the failure.
Some teams go to great lenghts to get cars well below minimum weight to allow ballast,and lots of it to be added excactly where they want it.eg GRM it seems have taken to not painting the cage now,it probally saves a few kilo's.Locks are carved up and things like child locks etc are deleted.Bonnets flapping used to be an issue but now all the teams use 3 pins to prvent a stop should one of the pins get broken,reaction to potentual stop go.HRT may well look at the locks as will no doubt plenty of other teams now.At the end of the day 2 failures and one penelty in 2 races is still better off than they could have been.deduct MS's points from Sandown as if he had been DSQ and you would hear the sheep bleat.Imagine if the protest had been upheld and the results provisional untill today eh!!

[GTRMagic]

They would take 3 months to confirm, just like the Brock '87 dramas

And I noticed too the retaining system on the doors on some of the cars didnt look too much like standard Commodore or Falcon fare..

Here's an idea, why not weld the doors shut to save a few Kgs??

[Mattracer]

I think we're getting closer to Nascar by the day...

[Big Trev]

Pardon my ignorance, but I have worked in race control only a few times (and never at a V8 race) however from what I have seen these decisions are never made in isolation, so I don't believe it does any good the name individuals

[xrystl]

What does the rule book say regarding an open door during a race meeting , someone may be able to quote the exact rule !!
If it's there in black and white , wouldn't the officials have egg on their face if they ignored the rule ??

[Onlooker]

I doubt that it would state anything about doors being open but there will be a clause that says something about posing a danger to other competors and spectators,loose objects protruding from the car,incorrectly fitted panels, blah blah blah

[RaceTime]

Trev - sorry - this time, like I said, we are wrong - the decision WAS made by one person and that person decided - for whatever reason - to override both the V8 Technical Manager, the Race Director and Clerk of Course - thus the reason for the 'delay'. These three had already made the decision NOT to bring Skaife in - the Steward made the call to do it.

Trev - you and I both know this is not how it is supposed to work - but it did.

Again, from the information passed to me, Schenkens comment to Wigston, when he made the 'order' was 'I think you are wrong on this one...'

Seems like there is or may be a power play starting to come out here....

[RaceTime]

And one other thing - if you cast your mind back a few years - recall another V8 Steward who was suddenly removed from the series errr sorry - he retired because of ill health. Think you will find that when that happened a few 'independant' calls had recently been made including one which had a major impact on timing around the country that no one had even contemplated before (the issue of timekeepers having to get a stewards permission before re-issuing times/results if any mistakes had been found)

[Average Punter]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
It didnt help that the whole of the grandstand on the pit straight went up as one in cheer when the #1 car was brought in for the blag flag offence

What a pack of @rseh*les!!!

First time I have seen the "meatball" flag but as soon as I knew what it meant, and knowing that I had $100 riding on Murph, I think I was one of them...

[GTRMagic]

Gawd... at $5 for the $1 thats a nice little earner there Average Punter

I have a pic I took on the digital camera of the pit straight grandstand, which has a banner entitled "Non HRT Supportes Stand" which as one promptly sung the NZ national anthem when Murf crossed the line.....

[Adam Laws]

GTR, as far as i could tell, all those cheers weren't just coming from that side of the track either !!

[jetsetter]

I've always thought that the Clerk of the Course was in charge of things that were happening on the track but we have a case here of him being overruled, can someone explain to me why we have a Clerk of the Course when he can be overruled?

[RaceTime]

Correct - the CofC is supposed to be in control. Why or how Wigston has been able to do this I am not yet sure (I believe a media release coming out tomorrow will expand a bit more on this issue).

[PVDA]

Someone has to be the scapegoat when the coroner gets involved in an accident.

[RaceTime]

Which is why the buck stops with the Cler of Course - with stewards now overriding them to this degree, something has to break soon - and break with a bloody great snap!

[Steve Ellery]

I dont wish to get into debate about what happened to Skaife or who made the call. I know I benefited from this decision, but a podium for me is a podium.

What I would like to say though is at Darwin this year, In I think it was race three and I can`t for the life of me remember which car it was, had a rear door swinging open. I asked my team to go and advise the stewards as I thought it dangerous, and the stewards did nothing. About five laps later the car in question and another car rubbed panels coming out of turn 1 and the rear door flew of. It was heading straight towards my windscreen and luccky for me it didnt hit the windscreen otherwise I may not be here.

Now I havent seen the Skaife footage yet but must say that if the stewards did nothing and the door did come off for some reason and someone gets hurt then we have a problem. I think though that the major debate here isnt the fact that Mark got a black flag but more the timing.

[GTRMagic]

It was Barg's car I think, the door actually fell off the car... the question was a 2 fold one, the thing would likely be underweight without it, and dangerous for the driver with it missing as well, from accident damage and possibly fumes....

That too should not have been allowed to happen....

[RaceTime]

Bargs at Darwin, Brede at Oran Park and now Skaife at Bathurst.

Maybe it is about time a more NASCAR-style body shell were introduced????

[Steve Ellery]

Also if you remember Besnards car at Canberra last year. The door was hanging of for the whole race.