Manufacturers propose new engine regs

Marbot · 19 Oct 2007, 10:28 (Ref:2044399)

Looks like they want the new "turbo" era pushed back a bit.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63410

duke_toaster · 19 Oct 2007, 11:01 (Ref:2044414)

Hmm ... I'd like to see production based turbos but I doubt that will happen ...

I don't think F1 should being in KERS as it's just push to pass by the back door.

MrTTraces · 19 Oct 2007, 11:03 (Ref:2044417)

Interesting idea.

As they've all signed the proposal, it stands more of a chance of being pushed through.

Getting them all to agree on something before any changes are made is a bonus.

Nicholosophy · 19 Oct 2007, 11:40 (Ref:2044444)

Well, it should be interesting.

I'd rather see turbos though with reduced engine size.

Pingguest · 19 Oct 2007, 12:18 (Ref:2044481)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Hmm ... I'd like to see production based turbos but I doubt that will happen ...

I don't think that's going to work. Toyota and Renault are in a totally different price class than Ferrari for example.

I'd like to see all engine regulations being replaced by a maximum amount of fuel available per race.

Sodemo · 19 Oct 2007, 12:22 (Ref:2044485)

I personally would like to see V12's back in F1.

duke_toaster · 19 Oct 2007, 12:51 (Ref:2044516)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

I don't think that's going to work. Toyota and Renault are in a totally different price class than Ferrari for example.

Ferrari use a FIAT unit

**Bononi** · 19 Oct 2007, 14:05 (Ref:2044571)

Interesting...

johntt · 19 Oct 2007, 14:07 (Ref:2044572)

My engine/fuel rules would be as follows:

1) Maximum 850bhp

2) Must use standard pump fuel.

3) Refuelling limited to once per race (one tyre change per race as well)

4) Weight equalisation. e.g. Ferrari has a 150kg engine, BMW 100kg, Honda 50kg. BMW have their car's minimum weight reduced by 50kg, Ferrari 100kg. The idea behind this is to stop everyone using the same engine format.

5) Engines must last 3 races.

6) Apart from 1) to 5) you can do what you like.

duke_toaster · 19 Oct 2007, 14:26 (Ref:2044585)

Well here's mine

2 litre capacity
Up to four cylinders
Based on engine which has a production use of at least 25,000
Any engine from the same parent company may be used (Ferrari using a FIAT unit, a Lexus badged car may use a Toyota unit and so-on)
Block from a road car but some moving parts may be replaced.
Two modified turbochargers
All the above set to have power around the current levels
Turbochargers must last the whole weekend.
Other engine parts limited more.
Pump fuel with an additive
Kinda unrelated, but a system which doesn't allow first gear to be engaged when the fuel hose is in.

Fish_Flake · 19 Oct 2007, 15:49 (Ref:2044643)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Well here's mine

2 litre capacity
Up to four cylinders
Based on engine which has a production use of at least 25,000
Any engine from the same parent company may be used (Ferrari using a FIAT unit, a Lexus badged car may use a Toyota unit and so-on)
Block from a road car but some moving parts may be replaced.
Two modified turbochargers
All the above set to have power around the current levels
Turbochargers must last the whole weekend.
Other engine parts limited more.
Pump fuel with an additive
Kinda unrelated, but a system which doesn't allow first gear to be engaged when the fuel hose is in.

This is basically the same as my catch-all IndyCar/Champ Car/Formula 1/Formula A/Open-Wheel Production Championship blueprint, but I also add a second option to keep things interesting:

Normally-aspirated engines
Up to six cylinders in any configuration
Based upon a production block
Maximum displacement: 3400 cc

jab · 19 Oct 2007, 16:37 (Ref:2044684)

I'd love to go back to the mid 90's free-for-all. Perhaps with restricted turbos on a similar level to them. Try and take that sort of competition back to the early 80's when normally aspirated and turbo engines were on an even keel (though that was partly down to turbo unreliability)

I don't like the idea of all this enviro stuff. This is racing FGS

Marbot · 19 Oct 2007, 18:32 (Ref:2044818)

Here's mine:

1.Four Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engines (50cc/one per wheel).

There will no longer be "run-off" areas.They are to be replaced by grass.Extra points will be awarded for most grass cut.

How's that for environmentally friendliness.

nameless · 19 Oct 2007, 18:54 (Ref:2044841)

Given the manufacturers influence on f1 then surely engine regulations should allow for real world developments, making use of technology that will eventually find its way to our road cars.
This could come in a form similar to Group B rally regs that will ultimately produce some utterly ludicrous homologated road cars or regulate for technology that follows road car trends eg.
- economy; a set amount of fuel allowed for the race (like in MotoGP - will also result in the abandonment of mid race refuelling which i have never enjoyed)
- small capacity turbo engines; as is becoming more prevalent as a way of reducing emissions and fuel consumption
- diesel; perhaps a little controversial for F1
- hybrid technologies; (sorry, i feel disgusting for even mentioning it)
- further weight reduction; lightweight engines (would probably result in use of too many expensive exotic materials though)
- low NOx, CO2, CO, HC emissions targets; otherwise free for all

how many of these could actually work??

Marbot · 19 Oct 2007, 19:06 (Ref:2044850)

I don't understand why all this will be introduced in 2013,when it's already available on road cars today? Sure it can be refined and improved,but I'm not sure that F1 is the place to do that.

f1manoz · 19 Oct 2007, 20:19 (Ref:2044896)

Well, I'll say this is one spot of good news - with all these manufacturers wanting engine regulations untli 2013, obviously some forsee a long future in Formula One...

Nicholosophy · 20 Oct 2007, 04:05 (Ref:2045134)

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1manoz

Well, I'll say this is one spot of good news - with all these manufacturers wanting engine regulations untli 2013, obviously some forsee a long future in Formula One...

Seems like an arbitrary 5 year period to me. Just because they think they should have these regs for that period doesn't mean that they will be around. Toyota as an example may have signed because the racing team is focused that far ahead. The suits in Japan may make the call to pull the plug and then that would be that.

The reason for all this 'crap' being proposed is simply a matter of public perception and is political in nature. If F1 appears to be attempting to be 'green', it looks good and sounds good on paper. Those who actually watch the cars go round and round and round will probably have a different opinion to those bureaucrats who are sitting in their EU offices (or whatever organisation they are from).

Notso Swift · 20 Oct 2007, 06:29 (Ref:2045168)

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1manoz

Well, I'll say this is one spot of good news - with all these manufacturers wanting engine regulations untli 2013, obviously some forsee a long future in Formula One...

Maybe they know they will be out by then so they do not have to do the development work

Teretonga · 20 Oct 2007, 09:22 (Ref:2045227)

F1 should be for pure race bred engines... leaves the production based stuff to touring cars and second lavel sports prototypes, gt cars etc.
Racing is racing...

nameless · 20 Oct 2007, 10:44 (Ref:2045278)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

F1 should be for pure race bred engines... leaves the production based stuff to touring cars and second lavel sports prototypes, gt cars etc.
Racing is racing...

but if F1 doesnt provide particularly exciting racing or relevant technology development then what purpose does it serve?

F1 is home to some of the best automotive engineers in the world and is it not the case that developing a fast racing engine with some strict boundaries is more of an engineering challenge than a free for all with a big packet of money.

Pingguest · 20 Oct 2007, 12:17 (Ref:2045323)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Ferrari use a FIAT unit

So, Ferrari is obligated to use an engine block from another brand? At least the Ferrari-engines for their road cars will be more advanced.

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