best open wheel

[lotus]

whats the best open wheel series on a tight budget

[DAVID PATERSON]

What's a tight budget? One man's pittance is another man's fortune.

[spearce]

try Classic FF1600. Cars from £2500.
Typical cost of 10 race season £3-5K.

[jonathanc]

Jedi racing. You can race in up to 3 series (Formula Honda, Monoposto 1200 & BARC Single Seaters) thus taking your pick from up to 30 races per year. Cars can be picked up for around 6-8k. Season can be run for 5k or possibly less.

Easy to work on, good value spares and factory help is SUPERB. Super quick cars as they run bike engines with around 100-150 BHP depending on engine (Sequential shifting and massive revs)

Eg. Formula Zip at brands recently were qualifying around 51 seconds. Formula Honda were qualifying in the low 49's.
and formula zip starts at 25k per year.

Whatever you choose, the important thing is to have FUN


The Jedi Racing Club has just been formed (MSA Approved) and will be running a replacement for formula honda next year. Should be even better value than current race costs.

[lotus]

yes thats about the amount i want spend 3-5k per year has jedi club a web site.ff1600 sounds really good value to is there a club?where do they advertise cars for sale. thanks lads

[Hybrid]

Jedi racing. You can race in up to 3 series (Formula Honda, Monoposto 1200 & BARC Single Seaters)

Would also be interested in web sites of any of the above. Thanks

[jonathanc]

Hi there,
No jedi web site at the moment, but you could phone Jedi Racing Cars and speak to John Corbyn on 01933 440774. Tell him Jonathan Croucher pointed you in his direction. Very nice chap.

Monoposto has a web site: http://www.monoposto.co.uk and some jedi's are advertised there at the moment.

BARC Single Seaters has one too http://www.single-seater.co.uk

The jedi race club has literally just been formed. Mike Roper is the man to chat to. Havent got his email address handy, but John Corbyn mentioned above will know more.

Ive offered to do their web site for them, so hopefully have something up fairly soon.

If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me.
Rgds
Jonathan

[JR Ewing]

Try, from where you are, the Star of The Midlands FF1600 championship. Pre-87 class cars can be found for £3k to £4k no problem, you get the best tracks, Mallory, Silverstone, Donington, Cadwell and they're all close to you! Prize money as well. You can also visit other tracks for their series... With respect to the tiny little motorbike engined cars, anyone who's been around for years will tell you that FF1600 has by far the closest racing, possibly in line with the 750MC Formula Vee which also costs pocket money.
The Jedi cars do look nice but people have ALWAYS had concerns about their structural rigidity in the event of a big shunt. Also the motorbike engines can be a bit of a 'mare and scrap yard prices for such have gone through the roof. Try FF1600, you'll enjoy yourself and your car won't lose value unlike almost all other types...

[JR Ewing]

Or, if you want real cheap as chips, pick up a Formula Vauxhall Junior 8v or Formula Renault 1700 for £2k and run it for (next to) NOTHING in the Monoposto or BARC Open series.......

[Bob Pearson]

Job to find a 1700 Renault now JR, I think a lot have been swallowed up by schools and corporate days out. The BARC Renault series still has a class for them but we have only seen one at the first round.
You're right though, if you find one it will be cheap and a lot of fun for the money.

[JR Ewing]

There are a couple I think Bob,
Saw a VD89 on Ebay a while back and a couple of Swifts on the mono site, although one was at over five grand which was rather optimistic.
Also, depending how competitve you want to be, a coupel more ideas:

Class B URD FF2000 car, like a Royale or something at, say £5k

BARC Renault 2000 with a Swift 95/6 or the like which would also come in at about £5k but the spares prices cost more, wings, floor etc.

[jonathanc]

Careful 'JR', unfound comments on the jedi cars 'rigidity' will end up closing this thread. The cars wouldnt race if they had not been passed by the MSA would they? Please name a driver that has been hurt in a jedi?? Ive seen quite a few smashes at well over 100mph (including head on with tyre wall) and all concerned simply walked away.

You dont see me dissing FF do you?

Your comments on 1) close racing 2) motorbike engines 3)engine prices are somewhat inaccurate

1) close racing is seen by many types of racing, not just FF, both mono1200 and FH are wheel to wheel, along with BARC FV, F4 etc

2)Bike engines arent a nightmare unless they are VERY highly tuned or simply setup incorrectly. Standard engines are actually VERY reliable in comparison to car race engines IMHO, and easy to work on.

3)M'bike engines are still good value when compared with the cost of other race engines and on a price/performance ratio very hard to beat.

Anyway, gents, I agree there are cheaper series and FF COULD be one of them (I have no experience of FF), but as a newbie to racing and all things motorsport, Ive found factory support to be THE MOST important thing.

Doesnt matter how many cars are kicking around, if you cant get the technical help it is very hard to solve the most annoying of problems and get on the track and race without worrying.

Whatever you guys decide to buy, have fun and enjoy.

[JR Ewing]

Okey dokey JC.

My opinions as to the chassis are purely personal, and are shared by some but doubtless not some others.
The fact that nobody has 'thrown a seven' in one thus far does not guarantee safety does it?

Bike engines - 'cars' have transmissions and diffs, they do not have chains...

One thing I will argue about. No Monoposto, 750MC, FHonda is anything like as competitive or as close as any FF1600 racing.

Also, Jedis/OMS/Terrapin etc. are not cheap, which is the basis for this thread....

I'm sure many people enjoy the bike engined racers though and I'm glad you do.

[jonathanc]

No probs JR, its just the jedi race cars are very defensive over safety claims as they have had a lot of un deserved flack in the past especially from other car manufacturers who got jealous about the performance comparisons.

You could be right on the close racing, but the limited FF1600 races I have seen so far have been fairly uneventful and procession like, so I'll take your word on it.

I agree m'bike cars are not as cheap as some cars, mainly because there arent as many around in comparison and they are very popular at the moment, thus keeping prices relatively high. I do still reckon they are good value and easy to work on, but again IMHO.

I think the best thing that potential racers looking for a race series to run in could do is visit a couple of race meets for various series and then decide based on their personal requirements. Even short tests can be arranged at favourable rates for most types of car.

[midgetman]

The only problem with the "Jedi" generic is what the hell do I put on the other foot?

One Jedi (Jedus?) isn't enough, I always feel I need to weld a couple together. Same goes for FRenault, late FFords, Caterhams etc - not built for grown ups. Hence the popularity of series catering for older cars.

[lotus]

what about the classic series for the older say 70s or 80s cars more my era up to 2000 cc are they out there for sale are they expensive i dont really want to win just have a bit of fun

[Peter Mallett]

What about Classic Clubmans? Tony Harman (who wanders around here sometimes) could help you there.

[Tony Harman]

Oh all right then best "wander" in.
Yes, Lotus, there are Classic formulae out there that don't cost a fortune, Classic Clubmans as Peter mentioned certainly fits the bill in Class B, reasonable car for 5k running costs from 3k p.a. FF1600 engine so virtually bullet proof, of course if you fancy something with a little more kick you could go Class A steel 1700 XFlow 180bhp with associated costs !
But there are a few choices around. I would certainly strongly recommend meeting up with someone currently racing in a formula you are interested in, after all we're all enthusiasts about what we do and next to doing it we love talking about it ! getting along to a meeting is an absolute must, look at the cars, could you prepare and run it ? the driving standards, the people etc.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, is factory or other technical support important for you, most club formulae have loads of people around willing and able to help out. Might be well worth while organising a one off rental drive to see if you like it, (rental cars available in Classic Clubmans, just get in touch we'll find you one.) Considering the time of year trying something out now then buying at the end of the season would seem to be practical, could then take in some winter clubbies.
Have you raced before ?
Oh and here' s the official plug http://www.classic-clubmans.co.uk/

[lotus]

thanks for that Tony that sounds just what iam looking to do I would like to maintain my own car i look after my saloon race car.I have had two track days in single seater's and liked it what gearbox's do they use?

[Tony Harman]

Clubmans use Ford 3 rail boxes, usually with Quaiffe or similar conversion internals, for a B Sport you could actually run a standard box in terms of strength but the ratios are lousy, standard diffs (no LSD). Which does mean they're a lot cheaper than a Hewland, that was the one bit I found really expensive on my Classic FF at the time.
We have a round at Snett on 14 Sept, along with our more modern MG X Power cousins, why not come along. PM or mail me and I'll organise a ticket for you.

[JR Ewing]

Do Clubmans count as 'open wheel' then?

Alos, FF1600 are unfortunately far from bullet proof...

[Peter Mallett]

Good point. As far as having cycle wings rather than covered wheel arches I'd consider them "open wheel". They aren't the same as a Sports 2000 for instance.

[Tony Harman]

JR is correct, technically they are "Sports Racing Cars ", but they are also Slicks and Wings and open as opposed to a saloon, Most Clubmans do have enveloping rear arches and front cycle type, (mandatory), mine has cycle type all around. The big difference is really that the engine is in front not behind the driver acting like a pendulum so that does make them more forgiving to drive.

As for engines I suppose JR that no engine is really bullet proof but a properley built (and legal...) FF1600 should be pretty close, revs kills engines and they just don't rev.

[JR Ewing]

B*gger me, who tunes your FF1600 motor then. I'll have to use him as my builder says more than about 15 hours running means a snapped crank and I've proved him right more than once!

[spearce]

JR, you must be very hard on the equipment. A properly built FF engine should go at least 1200-1500 miles between rebuilds.
With such short races, and limited testing that's 2-3 seasons ! What revs are you using, have you got a limiter fitted, are you regularly kerbing the flywheel ???

I agree its not that many hours though 1500/85 = 18 !!!