Circuit layout changes that do / don't suit Historic Racing.

[Rudernst]

So, the Snetterton 300 layout has been mentioned elsewhere as not being so good to drive as the old circuit. (I'll try and copy the relevant posts here.) Personally, I find the modern Silverstone GP loop / arena totally uninspiring, and mourn the loss of Bridge! Any other circuits that come to mind either way?


Bit messy editing, but here's first post from Rudolf....



give me Donington over Snetterton any day

havent been to Snet for ages
hate the new layout

yes,
i am chuffed that HSCC Donny might be back on
was a shame when that stopped, this year


as to Donington Historic
yes, will be interesting to see, what happens with that event
they became a bit big for their shoes lately

RE

[apriliadriver]

Like Rudi, I loved the old Snetterton layout, and would not miss it. 3 years ago, I did the HSCC Snetterton on the '300' layout and loathed it. I have not been back since, and will not in the future.

Whether accurate or not, I was told that the new layout was designed with modern open-wheeler cars and championships in mind and everyone else could like it or leave it.

I left.
Nick

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

give me Donington over Snetterton any day

havent been to Snet for ages
hate the new layout


RE

Originally Posted by apriliadriver

Like Rudi, I loved the old Snetterton layout, and would not miss it. 3 years ago, I did the HSCC Snetterton on the '300' layout and loathed it. I have not been back since, and will not in the future.

Whether accurate or not, I was told that the new layout was designed with modern open-wheeler cars and championships in mind and everyone else could like it or leave it.

I left.
Nick

Presumably you guys would be OK with the 200 circuit which cuts out the 'twiddly' bits and is pretty much the old circuit with just contour changes to Sears (now Montreal) and Coram to Murrays.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Presumably you guys would be OK with the 200 circuit which cuts out the 'twiddly' bits and is pretty much the old circuit with just contour changes to Sears (now Montreal) and Coram to Murrays.

When the comments were made I didn't want to get into a 300 v 200 discussion (especially being a local!), but since you asked John....

The 200, as you say is close to the previous layout. IMO the old Sear was a pain, and now it's more of a chicane doesn't make it any worse for me. Coram is OK until it turns into Murrays! There are a lot worse corners to be found at some other circuits, however. Re, the 300 layout, I'm OK with it, Palmer is a great corner (again- IMO), and the others are no better or worse than many to be found elsewhere.....

[gt917]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

When the comments were made I didn't want to get into a 300 v 200 discussion (especially being a local!), but since you asked John....

The 200, as you say is close to the previous layout. IMO the old Sear was a pain, and now it's more of a chicane doesn't make it any worse for me. Coram is OK until it turns into Murrays! There are a lot worse corners to be found at some other circuits, however. Re, the 300 layout, I'm OK with it, Palmer is a great corner (again- IMO), and the others are no better or worse than many to be found elsewhere.....

Well, like Mike, I too am a local, just ten minutes fast drive over the border in Suffolk. I ought to love it, but I too dislike the "300" internal loop and hate the modified Coram, and what should still be Russell, especially as Jim is still with us.

I happened to be at the circuit on a test day just after the works had been completed, and lo and behold JP flew in and had lunch in Tyrells.
As he finished and left the building, I congratulated him on all he and the team had done at his circuits, and for the first class work carried out at Snetterton. I did however follow up with the words that I thought he had buggered up Coram and Russell. He replied to the fact that he wanted to basically liven up and make that section more demanding for the drivers !!!

Any of us who raced the old bend and corner know full well that it was one of the most exhilarating and take a deep breath sections of many a track.

Why is it that when something works well, it has to be changed !!!!!!!!!!

When all said and done though, Jamie and all the staff are great, and Gary and his missus do run a damn good eating establishment.

[Mike Harte]

It's funny how one's mind works, and what you can remember. Having raced at Snetterton 30 or 40 times during the 60s (as attested by my avatar, passing the phone box opposite the pits), I can clearly recall the Norwich Straight and the Hairpin at the end of it. I can also just about bring back mental pictures of driving through Russell's, but the rest of the track is just a blur.

What I do recall is that it was a friendly track, and I always thoroughly enjoyed racing there; in fact, it was my favourite and it suited my car and my driving. It was where I had a heart-stopping moment on my first racing lap at the circuit, and it was where I had my first overall win. I loved the track.

[andy97]

Must admit that I like the new 300 layout because I feel it evens out the challenge for cars that handle as opposed to those that benefit from power.

I'm not that keen on the 200 as I think the 2 straights dominate the lap times.

Coram (and the left handed on the start finish straight) is a different challenge. It doesn't flow like the old one but is an extremely difficult corner to get right (don't think I have yet). Does that make it worse?

[Mike Bell]

It's human nature to resist change, so you could have a point, Andy!

It's likely the same when corners like Bridge at Silverstone get taken from us, and we have instead IMHO a new soul-less 'arena' with no elevation changes, endless run offs and which resembles driving round a massive car park. Maybe I need to 'embrace' the changes rather than lose interest in competing there!

[terence]

Funny this should crop up as was disgussing both circuits downsides and merits.Personally I always enjoyed the old layout of Snett but grew to really enjoy the 300.Exploring the no brakes possibilties on the first few laps was interesting but once learnt a lot of the bends could be quite good.Donington was always a favorite though,even after the monor changes made before they got the new license.

[Colin McKay]

Perhaps it was because I was one of the first to visit the new pit wall at Silverstone, but I've never been at ease with the new layout and it will never make up for the loss of Bridge, one of the truly great corners anywhere and one which I was still trying to get right after years of trying, but I knew it could be done!

[andy97]

Of course, the best circuit in the country, by a country mile (!) is Anglesey Coastal.

Pity not many people eve know where it is.

My favourite circuit, even though I only live a mile from Donington Park, and one that I will always try to get to. Well worth the visit.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by andy97

Of course, the best circuit in the country, by a country mile (!) is Anglesey Coastal.

Pity not many people eve know where it is.

My favourite circuit, even though I only live a mile from Donington Park, and one that I will always try to get to. Well worth the visit.

Won't argue with that Andy, though I love my local circuit (Oulton) too, and other circuits with elevation changes (Cadwell, Donington for example....) Brands (Indy) is a bit too short, though. Snett (possibly because its such a haul) and Silverstone National don't do it for me. Not raced at Croft or Knockhill although I've driven both and think they'd be interesting Enjoyed the only race I did at Rockingham, but its a soul-less place.

[morninggents]

I, too, hate the Snetterton 300 circuit and it's not a patch on the previous layout. The 200 layout is far better but suffers from the Palmer-liked slow right/faster left reprofile of the old Sears corner. I also dislike the present Silverstone GP layout and agree with Colin about losing Bridge corner. However, the previous GP circuit layout was better still and, to me, the old Abbey corner was the best corner of any circuit in the UK.
Thank the lord that Brands GP circuit hasn't yet been b*ggered about with.
And don't get me started about Croft - the oil drums and tyres near Hawthorn Bend make the circuit look like a banger track.

[chunder]

Lol

A banger track. If only you guys had crowds like they get at big banger meetings eh.

It's low brow, done by people who you wouldn't want to know, but they get bigger crowds for club meetings than you have even seen in your life.

So praps might be an idea to cut out the snobbishness and realise there are things other than appearance that matter to some folk. Drivers, fans and clubs included.

I am not a fan at all, but this is racing that is for the drivers and people running the tracks, not the safety wallers, some bloke sitting in MSA central or anyone else.

Hence why it gets big crowds, huge participation and thrives even though the scarcity of cars is horrendous!

[The Fat Clerk]

I always struggle on the Silverstone G.P. circuit when after going past the 'Wing' everything is just so open, once I'm back on the Wellington Straight it's fine again, especially Brooklands which I love.

Surprised no-ones mentioned the chicanes @ Combe, really turned it from one of my favourites into 'just another' track.

[zefarelly]

Spa should reinstate a proper bus stop for old cars.

Snett 300 I like!

Sillystone does not suit old bangers very well, its a lot worse than it was 8-10 years ago.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by chunder

Lol

A banger track. If only you guys had crowds like they get at big banger meetings eh.
It's low brow, done by people who you wouldn't want to know, but they get bigger crowds for club meetings than you have even seen in your life.
So praps might be an idea to cut out the snobbishness and realise there are things other than appearance that matter to some folk. Drivers, fans and clubs included.
I am not a fan at all, but this is racing that is for the drivers and people running the tracks, not the safety wallers, some bloke sitting in MSA central or anyone else.
Hence why it gets big crowds, huge participation and thrives even though the scarcity of cars is horrendous!

Sorry, but I fail to see what this has to do with the thread title?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Spa should reinstate a proper bus stop for old cars.

Snett 300 I like!

Sillystone does not suit old bangers very well, its a lot worse than it was 8-10 years ago.

I never raced at Spa before the modern chicane was introduced, sadly. How about the big run-off areas now in place- better or worse for old cars or not a consideration....

I think that 'flowing' circuits suit historic cars better. Anywhere like Magny-Cours, with it's very tight hairpin at the end of a long straight, or the micky-mouse layout at Monte Blanco, don't suit!

I wonder what Monza was like for historics before the chicanes were added?

[Peter Mallett]

I loved the old Bus Stop, it gave you a launch onto the old top straight. I used to watch Simon H who among very few others could nail the car off the exit and still miss the barriers on the other side of the track.

[chunder]

What I meant was the suggestion that barrels and painted tyres are a bad thing and make a track look like a banger track which must of course be a bad thing!

Hardly has anything to do with the layout of the circuit now does it! I like Croft actually, has some great corners and some real challenge for a flat airfield track.

Monza has had chicanes and heavy stops since the 80's!!

[Gerard C]

Old now but still some memory so far. I remember quite well Rouen les Essarts and the original Charade both located in France. I do remember Spa Francorchamps too, with a quite different "Raidillon". Specially at night, during the 24 Hours. We were young it was thrilling. But really dangerous even seen with young eyes. They were called "natural tracks" because they used open to the traffic roads, just closed for the racing events.
I'm not convinced that they would fit to historic cars by today's safety standards.
Sorry again for my english…

[356sc]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I wonder what Monza was like for historics before the chicanes were added?

Bloomin scary I should imagine.....parabolica all the way up to the 1st Lesmo pretty much flat...might need an extra large pair fitted!

There was talk earlier this year about changing the 1st chicane at Monza, no real loss, but then having a different Curva Grande configuration for 2017....

[356sc]

Great example of a track that has not been mucked about with that IMO is great for historics ....Dijon

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by chunder

Monza has had chicanes and heavy stops since the 80's!!

And old cars were being raced in the 1980s, so someone will possibly remember the old layout in an old car! Maybe not on here, though....

I've raced there once in recent years, and the car was pulling 7.3K on the straight even with the chicanes. Scary when the normal change point is 6.5K.... I remember at Le Castellet the same year we were asked if we wanted to race with or without the chicane half way down the straight. For the same reason as Monza the unanimous decision was 'with', even though it was hard on brakes and disrupted the flow!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by 356sc

Great example of a track that has not been mucked about with that IMO is great for historics ....Dijon

Definitely!