Chevy to Champ Car?

[Amar7605]

I got this rumor off of Champweb.net:

Chevy to Champ Car? 08-01
There is a rumor that Chevrolet will leave the Indy Racing League and join a Ford/Chevrolet manufacturer's battle in the Champ Car World Series starting in 2006. In that case, however, it would seem only to be a battle of brands (not engineering), as both companies would have their engines built by Cosworth (at least the bottom end) and the Champ Car series would control the electronics. At this point, this is just a rumor with a bit of speculation mixed in.

This would be great to see, and it could bring in some new American fans to Champ Car, perhaps?

[Kicking-back]

Doubt it.

[BootsOntheSide]

Why would Ford build them an engine to compete against them? If not, where will the engine come from? Why would an American company run in a series whose focus is shifting away from America?

[Amar7605]

It is possible that Chevy wants to extend its brand name all over the world. I was watching this show about an auto show in Beijing, China, and Cadallac was out there in full force.

If Chevy wants to go more global, then having exposure in Champ Cars would make sense, even though that General Motors is already on every continent.

Think about it... being in NASCAR already gives Chevy name recognition in the US, and the IRL doesn't really help. So, since Chevy has the US market taken care of with NASCAR basically, its time to go global. And Champ Cars are the way to do that.

[Kicking-back]

It's simply not going to happen, I believe.

[codename_47]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
It's simply not going to happen, I believe.

Not with THAT attitude!

Well, engaging dream mode for a moment, think of what would happen if it did!

Think of all the Chevy VS Ford advert and promotion type things, think of how more attractive that would be to the American audience which Champcar apparently so desperatly needs to regain touch with.

Imagine if Chevy did what Honda and Toyota did for the other series and brought some of their teams with them?

*sighs* I know I should snap out of it, but I'm so much happier here!

[Amar7605]

Just like Honda and Toyota are bitter rivals, so goes Bowtie and Oval. Chevy is not going to pass up a chance to compete with Ford, especially when Ford is not competing with anyone!

[Omega99]

I'm not going to count on this one. Not at all.

[Jordi]

I remember a picture of 1993, in the Yearbook for that year, in a Cosworth folder. It had a sticker saying "Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!"

(That's all I can say)

[Kicking-back]

Ford know they're onto a good thing and won't give that up.

[gttouring]

and chevy has been lackluster in IRL since the switch to new rules (post aurora)and they have the cossie connection now so....it could work...

[racinthestreets]

Since Kalkhoven said some annoucements are forthcoming, speculation is rampant. Chevy has yet to step up to a comepetetive level in the oval open wheel racing series, so they may be looking elsewhere. The benefit they receive is that the costs are less to be competetive in CCWS. The unchecked monies that Honda and Toyota bring to a racing series are tough to compete against. Although, shareholders may start to speak loudly regarding the investment of Honda and Toyota.

[Tim Northcutt]

So...a turbo is cheaper to build and maintain per unit than a normally-aspirated engine???

I think not....

But I do understand the point you are making concerning the R&D $$$ that Toyota and Honda are dropping into what they are running over in the other Series....

GM doesn't like to lose....but they aren't too keen on putting a ton of money into it, either....

The word I've been hearing is that Chevy is not having a lot of fun in the other series right now...

OTOH, they get tons of exposure via providing all of the pace cars, safety vehicles, etc. for the other Series...that has to figure into their overall assessment....

We'll see....it could go either way....

[gttouring]

the cosworths XFE's are cheaper than the newly developed 3.0 N/A 's that are being used.
espesially as they are all rev controlled and the turbo's boost controlled no trouble...mind you Tim and Bob Reibe if he chimes in...Even if I do know V8's and big cube motors and racing...Anything over 6 litres to me is freaking gigantic.
even 6 litre V8's are big in my world... a 6.5 K rev limit is too low, unless its diesel.
and 4 cylinders and 6 are normal to me, and a turbo and fuel map on a laptop or PC makes more sense to me than a carburettor ever has, Fuel injection was considered more crazy once upon a time vs. Carbs and considered too expensive to maintain and run- need for PC's and engineers and what not, and now it is common place. Super chargers and turbos on 3 litre or smaller engines and the forged components that go with it and the fuel maps adn what have you don't seem expensive to my mind or more complex, in fact they seem more simple and effective in many situations (size and weight blah blah...)
of course i do secretly pray for the return of an F5000 rule set...
or a no cube limit on motors vs. smaller turboed/supercharged motors and no TC and no paddles real shifting
and one element wings and big wide champy cars.

[mountainstar]

It was recently reported in the indy star that chevy has not renewed with the irl for next year. And it is well known they are very disatisfied with the irl. Whether that would translate into chevy moving over to champcars it's too early to speculate.

One point to make. Back in 1994 it was known that indycar(CART) had about half as many fans as NASCAR but that the average income of an indycar fan was twice as much. There is a whole different demographic out there that just isn't the NASCAR crowd. The IRL has aligned itself with NASCAR so closely that an IRL program is redundant, especially when you factor in the poor crowd and tv numbers compared to the cost. There is a opportunity out there for chevy to reach a whole different demographic.

[Amar7605]

Assuming that Chevy decides to enter Champ Cars, here are some things to think about:

1) Will Chevy have an engine ready for the 2005 season, and if not when?

2) What teams could be powered by the new engine? Or will former IRL teams join Champ Cars?

3) Given that the series has a contract with Ford, how long does that last (I presume it was until the 2005 season)?

[Ac.]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
OTOH, they(Chevy) get tons of exposure via providing all of the pace cars, safety vehicles, etc. for the other Series...that has to figure into their overall assessment....

If Chevy pulls out of supplying engines to the IRL then they will likely lose their marquis pace vehicle status as well. Toyota and Honda are not likely thrilled to be behind any Chevy, even if it is a pace vehicle!

The same thing happened in Champcar when Toyota and Honda left, most of their pace vehicles were replaced.

[Uesque]

Originally posted by Amar7605
In that case, however, it would seem only to be a battle of brands (not engineering), as both companies would have their engines built by Cosworth (at least the bottom end) and the Champ Car series would control the electronics.

This is already similar to what happens in NASCAR. Body templates are decreed by NASCAR, and built by the teams as are the engines. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge supply the stickers. They have become more sponsor than manufacturer.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by mountainstar
It was recently reported in the indy star that chevy has not renewed with the irl for next year. And it is well known they are very disatisfied with the irl. Whether that would translate into chevy moving over to champcars it's too early to speculate.

One point to make. Back in 1994 it was known that indycar(CART) had about half as many fans as NASCAR but that the average income of an indycar fan was twice as much. There is a whole different demographic out there that just isn't the NASCAR crowd. The IRL has aligned itself with NASCAR so closely that an IRL program is redundant, especially when you factor in the poor crowd and tv numbers compared to the cost. There is a opportunity out there for chevy to reach a whole different demographic.

Chevy has not "extended its agreement"....but their current contract for the IRl runs through the 2005 season...

That is a fact....

But they have not extended like Toyota and Honda have....not yet...


I do agree with your second point...and it creates an interesting scenario for the marketing arm of GM to consider....

[f1manoz]

Doubtful for the time being. Chevy may be unhappy in the other series, but Ford are even happier with the monopoly they have in ChampCar. It's cheap as chips to run and another manufacturer will only increase cost and eventually we'll have exactly the same situation as only a few short years ago.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by f1manoz
Doubtful for the time being. Chevy may be unhappy in the other series, but Ford are even happier with the monopoly they have in ChampCar. It's cheap as chips to run and another manufacturer will only increase cost and eventually we'll have exactly the same situation as only a few short years ago.

Ford...at least the Cosworth side of it....has to LOVE what they have, because in reality they are in BOTH series...

The Chevy engine is really a Cosworth...so they are getting the best of both worlds....

[Amar7605]

Originally posted by f1manoz
It's cheap as chips to run and another manufacturer will only increase cost and eventually we'll have exactly the same situation as only a few short years ago.

Then by this logic, NASCAR should have loads of problems by now. How come they are so successful?

I feel that competition is good, even though that in this case it is just the brand name and not the engine (assuming Chevy keeps the Cosworth engine).

If this is the case, then the best thing that can happen is Chevy building its own turbocharged engine. They have the capability, and if they do it right then they should have one by 2006.

[Tim Northcutt]

Chevy ran turbos in CART years ago....they had a partnership with Ilmor to build them...

But I believe Ilmor is involved with Honda (at least they were last year) in the other Series...

But there are other places they could go to do this if they wanted to build turbo engines....

[Snrub]

I think it makes sense:
1. Chevy is having their bums (gosh darn censor!) handed to them in the IRL. They look incredibly foolish and I would stake good money on the fact that if it continued with the same manufacturers for 10 years, Chevy would never improve from their #3 spot. It's the same problems that have crippled them as a auto manufacturer. They must want to find a solution to this problem. Going to CART is a dignified exit. It also ensures that their won't be crazy one up-manship development as Ford doesn't want to do that either. Honda and Toyota on the other hand...
2. PG said better things were comming for the series and even he was surprised by it.
3. GM would save a bucketload of money by not having to do R&D if the engines were simply rebadged. Engine building costs are a small part compared to R&D. Toyota is spending $40-50M/year on the IRL. I have no idea why Ford would want to share with GM, but then again I still don't understand why they helped them in the IRL last year.

If Chevy is to develop their own CART engine in the future, it would probably be pretty easy. They'd probably get a baseline design, maybe from Mercedes or Ford, both of which are over engineered for the current power output.

In terms of cost, the easiest way to make big power is forced induction. I'll put it in context I can explain: I went to a big Rotary meet in Indy this year. There were LOTS completely street driven and some for race use 1.3L engines (breaths like a 2.6L) making around 400hp with turbos. Know how many n/a engines making 400hp there were? None. Why? Because it can only barely be done and it takes a race budget to do it. The maximum possible HP with a n/a 1.3L rotary with peripherial ports is ~400hp. If done properly that n/a engine will last in the tens of hours under racing conditions. I don't think a 1.3L rotary making ~520-570hp (IRL level n/a power displacement adjusted for race duration) has ever been made. It's probably possible, but would take tens of millions of dollars to create.

[gttouring]

well there are cheap motor options everywhere if they open up the formula....www.shafiroff.com
and ryan falconer engines... like in the Prototype threads.
why shouldn't they try to open the rules? and run a displacement andturbo setup? 12 cylinders, cosworth turbo, 6 cylinder turbos- do what IRL won't do and pay homage and leap into the future with more chassis and rule configurations...