AoB's tracks

[AoB Special Stage]

Scanner is finally working . I will be posting up here when something good arises. Let me just state a few things first.

1. I am not an artist. I can hardly draw two parallel lines. Therefore, width will not be shown along with some other idiosyncrasies. I will post an example soon.

2. I think that, if the racing is good enough, people will find a way to watch it. Spectator viewing is the absolute least of my concerns. If they really want to, they will watch regardless.

3. I think that some broad descriptions as "3rd gear corner" are useless. 3rd gear in what exactly? Third is much different in say, a W105 Mercedes to an Audi R18 e-tron.

4. I think building for passing is not exactly ingenious. If someone really wants to get past, they'll find a way. If they need a place built specifically to pass someone (unless of course something in the rules has gone horribly awry [cough, cough, F1]) they may want to look into a new line of work.

5. I think Tilke isn't a bad designer. I have read the circuit design rules for F1 (over 100 pages long!!!) and it's a wonder anything gets done. I also understand why he did what he did to Hockenheimring (spellcheck thinks that means chickenhearted). He had two goals there. Slow down the circuit, and address security problems in the forest section. What I don't get is why he elected to destroy the forest. I would've put a removable barrier wall there instead uprooting it and placing a gravel trap there.

6. I have little to no interest in racebikes (no offense). I did race in an online sportsbike racing series in 2005 and another in 2009, but those used street circuits amazingly enough. There was also another with Motocross bikes. The only time I ever looked into superbikes was when I was investigating the V5 engine, which Honda apparently used for a few years there.

7. I have a varied motorsport history. INNSC (NASCAR based with heavy use of road courses), GTRS (GT cars), GTES (Prototype and GT including some endurance races), SSEC (endurance, never as a driver), RRWC (extremely exotic and abnormal BoP'd cars), WSOS (once with motocross bike, once with ATV) WOMC (once with ATV), FES ('endurance' sprints), etc.

8. I tend to use interconnected designs. That is, a smaller circuit contained inside a large master circuit, with the two being combine-able. Further, I favor rounded corners to square off ones.

[breathes]

[AoB Special Stage]

Not my intended proof of concept, but one nonetheless. (The upper area with the MS paint pitlanes is a separate oval) Only showing the master circuit for now because there is a massive number of road options. The architects can work out the other facilities on their own.

[AoB Special Stage]

Presenting the full map of GMAC. So many variants, working on them.

[AoB Special Stage]

Historic National


Historic GP ~


Short Perimeter


Perimeter


Oval GP


Oval (15 degree banking)


Ran out of upload slots. Brilliant.

[AoB Special Stage]

Club


International


Oval National


Oval Short


North Short


National

[AoB Special Stage]

Endurance (my favorite)


Central Short


Alt. Endurance

[ScotsBrutesFan]

OK now give us some sense of scale so that we can judge how workable it would be.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

OK now give us some sense of scale so that we can judge how workable it would be.

I was waiting for that. The longest (Historic) version of the main straight, I'm thinking ~800m geometrically.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

There is a little trick that you can do with Sketchup where you can import an image and scale it give a single dimension such as a pit straight



Your Historic GP is 5.516kms or 3.22 miles
in comparison your club circuit ** is 1.155km or 0.72 miles
The Straightish section that you have a pit lane against is only just over 300m with the pit lane being even shorter and no paddock space.

My point for doing this is to say that when thinking about a circuit, one thing you always have to keep in mind is some sort of scale. Even with pencil drawing, perhaps even more so.

When drawing a circuit do you think of the pencil line as the track width, or as the centre line?

Not a trick question,

If it's the width, then you then have a scale ... so for example a hairpin, you wouldn't want the approach and exit virtually touching because the gap would be less than a track width and the hairpin would look like a street circuit hairpin you dislike so much.

If it's a centre line then you have to think how close to I make centre lines pass one another. Parallel: Half a track width, a bit of grass, a barrier, an access road and then the same again on the other side.

Don't get me wrong the Historic circuit is not a bad circuit and just needs a bit of detail work to make it workable, and not that much at that.
But for the overall design, in this case I'd say it's overloaded with loops and sections that are not worthwhile.
For example, I haven't drawn it but The oval, the straights might be around 300m (probably a little less), the gap between then would be 30m at most. 15m radius corners at 15 degrees

In the real word the Hairpin at Montreal which realistically is about as tight as you want to go on a permanent racing circuit has an inside radius of 25m



**the club circuit looks remarkably like Brands Hatch Indy before the squared some of the corners.

I hope you take these comments as constructive and I really look forward to seeing your next designs.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

There is a little trick that you can do with Sketchup where you can import an image and scale it give a single dimension such as a pit straight

Attachment 44314

Your Historic GP is 5.516kms or 3.22 miles
in comparison your club circuit ** is 1.155km or 0.72 miles
The Straightish section that you have a pit lane against is only just over 300m with the pit lane being even shorter and no paddock space.

My point for doing this is to say that when thinking about a circuit, one thing you always have to keep in mind is some sort of scale. Even with pencil drawing, perhaps even more so.

When drawing a circuit do you think of the pencil line as the track width, or as the centre line?

Not a trick question,

If it's the width, then you then have a scale ... so for example a hairpin, you wouldn't want the approach and exit virtually touching because the gap would be less than a track width and the hairpin would look like a street circuit hairpin you dislike so much.

If it's a centre line then you have to think how close to I make centre lines pass one another. Parallel: Half a track width, a bit of grass, a barrier, an access road and then the same again on the other side.

Don't get me wrong the Historic circuit is not a bad circuit and just needs a bit of detail work to make it workable, and not that much at that.
But for the overall design, in this case I'd say it's overloaded with loops and sections that are not worthwhile.
For example, I haven't drawn it but The oval, the straights might be around 300m (probably a little less), the gap between then would be 30m at most. 15m radius corners at 15 degrees

In the real word the Hairpin at Montreal which realistically is about as tight as you want to go on a permanent racing circuit has an inside radius of 25m

Attachment 44315

**the club circuit looks remarkably like Brands Hatch Indy before the squared some of the corners.

I hope you take these comments as constructive and I really look forward to seeing your next designs.

The pencil line would be roughly the centerline. I unintentionally mis-scaled the oval. It was to be slightly shorter than Martinsville with the slightly steeper banking.

The club and historic circuit were actually afterthoughts. I just add the flow of the course, then modify it. That time I just ended up leaving the original flow of the course. Also that one doesn't have run-off because it is an older design. A few others have similar issues. I want to filter through some of the older ones I liked before reaching the newer ones. Expect a gradual increase of angular corners.

Quick question though, what is the radius of Casino? I can't remember.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Casino? Do you mean Lowes (Fairmont) hairpin at Monaco?

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Casino? Do you mean Lowes (Fairmont) hairpin at Monaco?

Yes. Meant the Grand Hotel/Loews/Gare.

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

Presenting the full map of GMAC. So many variants, working on them.

This either has got a problem of scale or it's runoff problems galore. However, the historic circuits are beautiful, and given their era's amount of track safety (or lack thereof), they are pretty accurate. And they both provide quite a good flow for the driving experience, too.

It's just that to modernize those, they would need to be edited to make way for sufficient runoff areas.

If the length of your pitlane is accurate and not above 100 garages but instead rather similar to GP track pitlanes, the short perimeter circuit would probably be the only one of those tracks still in use today because it does allow for enough runoff space everywhere.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by Yannick

This either has got a problem of scale or it's runoff problems galore. However, the historic circuits are beautiful, and given their era's amount of track safety (or lack thereof), they are pretty accurate. And they both provide quite a good flow for the driving experience, too.

It's just that to modernize those, they would need to be edited to make way for sufficient runoff areas.

If the length of your pitlane is accurate and not above 100 garages but instead rather similar to GP track pitlanes, the short perimeter circuit would probably be the only one of those tracks still in use today because it does allow for enough runoff space everywhere.

That one didn't have the runoff shown, it was made before I decided what a good way to show runoff would be.

[AoB Special Stage]

An old circuit in the American South, Mississippi to be exact. They really don't have a proper track there.

Full Map


Short Circuit


Main Circuit

[AoB Special Stage]

Another quick older design. Also testing panorama shots. Live with it.

[AoB Special Stage]

From the 13th through the 23rd, I'll be trying to clear my backlog by posting at least one circuit per day. Would love some feedback so the new circuits come out swinging, metaphorically of course.

[AoB Special Stage]

Let's get going. First, this is an older design combining four smaller (3-4 km) circuits into one long one. Also was a design study.

Map:


Full Circuit:


West:


North:


South:


East:

[AoB Special Stage]

The last red one, I promise. Design study for chicanes. Happy Valentine's.

Map:


Classic:


GP:


North:

[AoB Special Stage]

Another combined circuit. Come on people, feedback, please.

Map:


Full:


South:


Central:


East:

[ScotsBrutesFan]

You need to give more than just the images, tell us about imagined length. Withou some sort of scale it's difficult to comment on.

[SKG]

I feel there is too much going on with these most recent circuits, whatever the scale is.

I find it quite telling that some of your shorter configurations look like pretty good circuits on their own, without the need to be mashed together with 5 or 6 other circuits into a large complex.

I would suggest keeping it simple and as SBF suggested provide some track lengths/dimensions.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by SKGThunder

I feel there is too much going on with these most recent circuits, whatever the scale is.

I find it quite telling that some of your shorter configurations look like pretty good circuits on their own, without the need to be mashed together with 5 or 6 other circuits into a large complex.

I would suggest keeping it simple and as SBF suggested provide some track lengths/dimensions.

I actually thought of that last night. I was like, "what was it I forgot?", and then it struck me.

Five Fingers GP: 3.84 mi./6.19 km.
Combined Motorsports Park Full: 7.63 mi./ 12.31 km.
High Speed Loop GP (also the GP and Classic are backwards): 3.01 mi/ 4.85 km
Snake Motorsports Park: 6.24 mi./ 10.06 km


I'll post the last of the first set of tracks today or tomorrow.

[AoB Special Stage]

This circuit, located in Serbia's third largest city, is my creative interpretation of the Red Bull Ring. Note the oblong, ovaloid top section that has about as much practicality as the circle track layout you can make at Buddh.


Track Map:


GP (3.47 mi./5.6 km)


National (2.75 mi./4.44 km):


North (2.27 mi./3.66 km)


Short (1.52 mi./2.45 km):


South (1.57 mi./2.53 km) :

[AoB Special Stage]

Please don't kill me for using French in English Canada. This circuit keeps you on the wheel. Many corner complexes can be skipped, and there are several hairpins and double apexes. You can figure all ABAAA style configurations can be used.

Track Map:


GP (4.61 mi./7.44 km):


South (4.29 mi./6.92 km):


North (2.24 mi./3.61 km):


Short 1.92 mi/3.1 km):