Development Series.. Privateer or Professional?

[Prickly_Goo]

Going back to what Shane Beikoff said in the Fujitsu Bathurst thread, has the Development Series become too mainstream?

Ok, So it produces good racing now and then and possibly even outdoes the Main Show sometimes but I think it has become too expensive for privateer teams to surface in and compete in.. the price of cars now is almost double the price of what you could buy back in say 2003, and more so into 2004 making it more differcult to be competitive and mingle with the big boys at the front of the field.

I would like to perhaps see a budget cap introduced in order to bring privateers back as more and more pressure is being placed on Sponsors to provide funding, more stand alone rounds and perhaps the AU/VX not being phased out for another year or so... (but that wont happen because mostly everyone has upgraded correct?)

You can all choose to disagree with my above points, but if like Shane said the Development series was created to suit the more privateer rather than professional teams I say something has to be done before it gets too expensive.

p.s.. Fujitsu gets enough exposure so I called it the proper Development Series tag it is accustomed to..

[GTRMagic]

This comes back to the original intention of the series, to find a home for the ex-main series cars, so the big teams could make some money....

The first series' saw a number of ex-Perkins, ex-GMS, ex-DJR and other big team chassis running around, competitive, and close to main game pace.

Then the big main gamers arrived, with works SBR, SER and BJR hardware and the level increased. The cars were as quick as the main gamers, primarily because the same teams that built the cars and ran them in the main game, also ran the development series attacks....

We move to BA, and a series of older cars from the main game filter down, but the costs go up enormously. An ex-DJR AU back in its day was a $175k or so proposition.... while an ex-DJR BF as sitting on the grid now, is almost double that ask... allegedly...

Are the big teams getting greedier in their asking price? Perhaps, but there seem to be people out there willing to pay... while it makes financial sense for them to keep selling their old cars as the income goes a long way to the cost of constructing a new chassis.

So if the teams get the expensive, el-swisho gear... they need the people to run it... so the costs are increased... as ex-maingame people are required to run the cars.. and they arent usually weekend warriors, most taking full time positions to prepare & engineer these toys.

The scenario is then... a shiny new car, plus a number of 'mules' to prepare and engineer the car... all needs to be paid for somehow....

Which to me, is kinda how we got to the scenario of a development series drive costing $300k-$800k depending on the package, the ownership position, the driver, damage etc etc....

You dont have to spend that kind of money of course, but arguably, if you have a car that is not current spec, and you are competiting against cars that are at or close to current spec, there will be a performance gap that only legendary skill and daring from the drivers seat can assist with.

Is it sad that most of the AU's have gone from this series? Of course its not good to lose any competitor... but the game has changed, the development series has moved forward, with the injection of serious money from people like drivers, patrons, fathers etc that see the value in pursuing their edge in this particular climate.

I expect it will be all change for next season too, when the flood of ex-main game BF's become available, and every second car is an ex-Stone Bros this or ex-888 that... pricing the world further and further away from how that very first season came about.

So the premise that you can buy a mid-range car and keep running it for 3 of 4 seasons and expect it to be midfield or better without serious upgrades in the chassis or engine may now be an optimistic and unattainable viewpoint....

This perhaps suggests that there is space for a 3rd series, run by the VESA people, but I would imagine too that they may have marketing problems in having 3 series at essentially the same specification of car, if not body shape, racing at the same events.....

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

This comes back to the original intention of the series, to find a home for the ex-main series cars, so the big teams could make some money....

.....

I'd suggest this remains the primary aim of the series, minus the smoke & mirrors.
Check out the VESA business plan under secondary revenue (used cars).

[Prickly_Goo]

Thats amusing you say that Cavvy..

If thats what the series was created for, then whats in it for the teams?.. Yeah they get a ex Level 1 V8 Supercar, but how many are actually the same car from that series??.. Most who buy cars from teams to use in the Dev Series, have probably had all the 'go-fast' bits taken off em', unless you were smart and clever enough to purchase a 'still-warm' car that still has everything you paid for in it.

Are Team's getting short changed with the lack of 'stand alone' rounds? Yes I think so, Wakefield Park, is the ONLY round where they get a proper garage (read not a tent) and the ONLY place where they are kings (and queens soon ) Is this what we want for our premier feeder catagory???

[Malfunction Junction]

I'd suggest that there certainly is a space for a 3rd series, and I don't mean the one using another brand tyre.....

I think it might best be a state based concept, so that the travel costs are eliminated and there would be a seal of engine/gearbox etc. There wouldn't be room for them at the main game meetings, which might be helpful on cost/focus anyway.

Limit the track time to about 1100km a year and they shouldn't need rebuilding anyway.

This way, development series teams may find a revenue stream from flogging off their old cars.....

To make a show of integrating the events, a wildcard entry to the development series could be offered for when it comes to town....

What they'll do when they eventually have to rejig the cars is anybody's guess....


As usual, 4 tickets to every event is all I ask......

[davester]

Those alluding to providing a disposal mechanism for the main game are 100% correct. The Dev series itself has no priority at VESA HQ.

In regard to whom should be in (privateer or pro), it's best let the market sort itself out. It's a fact of life that competitors will be equipped with different financial resources. What the "big money" DVS teams do is keep interest in the series by maintaining high quality levels. Their equipment filters down through other DVS teams on a regular basis.

The harsh reality for some is that they are kidding themselves by running on inadequate budgets while maintaining the expectation of being a front runner. Don't get me wrong here, I think the series is terrific, with the only downside being engine maintenance costs.

IMO, stand alone events are a non-issue. If you're in the sport to merely park in a pit lane garage, then you need to race in another series. I'm sure the vast majority of competitors get a bigger thrill from large crowds, which only eventuate on the main game program.

A third tier series will only be of benefit if it is introduced as a tightly controlled budget class. Once again costs are a factor of speed and risk. If the cars stay fast, then the sum of the package needs to reflect safety and reliability for the chosen speed. You cannot economically build 295kmh cars out of production cars and expect them to survive. To survive at these speeds the cars must be full of bespoke racing components (V8 Supercar), hence higher investment and maintenance costs. For 3rd tier, drop engine hp back to 500hp, introduce a longer life 6.0L conversion package with parity to 500hp, reduce tyre width (hence driveline load) and consumable life increases, equating to reduced costs. BTW VESA have no interest in following this path, when their interest in DVS is minimal.

DVS is doing fine in the absence of thier being a better option. No one is forcing the competitors into this series. Some on this forum need to accept that those who have made the investment are happy to be there.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by Malfunction Junction

I'd suggest that there certainly is a space for a 3rd series, and I don't mean the one using another brand tyre.....

I think it might best be a state based concept, so that the travel costs are eliminated and there would be a seal of engine/gearbox etc. There wouldn't be room for them at the main game meetings, which might be helpful on cost/focus anyway.

Limit the track time to about 1100km a year and they shouldn't need rebuilding anyway.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Time and time again, we hear these new proposals for a budget entry level class to get people into the sport and then they annnouce a national series. :rolleyes

Duh! Towing a car all over the country, flying crew there and back, putting them in motels etc. costs a fortune and will easily account for a very substantial portion of a small race team's budget. If a series wants to have any cost containment claims taken seriously, it needs to be state based.

Every state series that i know of covers less than 1000km per annum, therefore, these cars would only need rebuilding once a year and basic checks and maintenance in between.

[dougcharli]

perhaps have a state based development series, i.e.: you are based in qld , then you only race in qld for the heats throughout the year, with a final of perhaps, the top 5 in each state, being fought out at the Mountain, or the following years Clipsal - maybe that would lure more competitors and cut down the actual cost to the teams??

[Dasher]

Is everybody forgetting that there already is a 3rd tier series up and running in the Shannons Nationals V8 Touring Car class for the older supercars which is more or less run as a privateteer type of class.

[Rombles1]

Set up the 3 VESA-run tiers correctly, as far as scheduling goes, and you could have live V8 Supercars on TV every week.... Level 1 from EC this week, Level 2 from Mallala next week, Level 3 from Barbagallo the week after, then back to the next Level 1 round, from wherever TC decides to take the circus next. Allow "Buschwackers" to compete in no more than 2 levels in the same year, but only score points in one, and have all the cars from all 3 levels racing in the 1000km race at Bathurst. People could rely on the fact that there will be V8 Supercars on TV at 2pm every Sunday, except for maybe 3 or 4 weeks at Christmas, and maybe a week either side of Bathurst.






Yeah I know, get back in your box Rombles.

[Malfunction Junction]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

Set up the 3 VESA-run tiers correctly, as far as scheduling goes, and you could have live V8 Supercars on TV every week.... Level 1 from EC this week, Level 2 from Mallala next week, Level 3 from Barbagallo the week after, then back to the next Level 1 round, from wherever TC decides to take the circus next. Allow "Buschwackers" to compete in no more than 2 levels in the same year, but only score points in one, and have all the cars from all 3 levels racing in the 1000km race at Bathurst. People could rely on the fact that there will be V8 Supercars on TV at 2pm every Sunday, except for maybe 3 or 4 weeks at Christmas, and maybe a week either side of Bathurst.






Yeah I know, get back in your box Rombles.

Rombles, I think you've cracked it. If the black wiggle really wants to compete with AFL etc, he's got to get his product out there each and every week. This could be the way to do it without bankrupting everybody involved.

I'd let all 3 tiers run at the 500K enduro as well, wherever that is run, but you'd have to limit the field to about 40 odd.


By the way - 4 tickets to each event for Rombles too.


Davester your suggestions should apply across the entire category, rather than making a special set of rules for the 3rd tier. I'd favour an intake restrictor rather than a hard rev limiter too. We can see in the Le Mans cars how it restricts power through revs and might just allow a bit more slipstreaming than we currently get.