Super tourers............Die

[mtpanorama]

The not so Super tourers seem never to die a quiet death. What does every one else think.

[marcus]

I dont mind them at all , they are quick,responsive and exciting , but I will watch anything race so it dont matter.

I voted for the sports sedans option , I dont think they would hold a candle to the top line sports sedans but maybe they could run competitively mid to rear of field , but what the heck would I know ???

[D.R.T.]

Yeah Panourama, whats the point of this thread, something you have done to try and make yourself feel big. Give it up, it achieves nothin, so why do it. Motorsport is motorsport it comes in all different shapes and sizes but everyone involved it in has a common passion, except maybe you. Super Touring is great, along with many other categories, and has touched many peoples hearts and still does, the ASTC 02 thread is evidence of that. Its not at its strongest now, but why have a go at the people, myself included, who want to continue their passion for this form of racing.

[alfasud]

Narrr... I think mtpanorama is one of Supertourings greatest fans - not only is he a frequest poster in the ASTC 02 thread, but he starts a whole new message thread (this one) dedicated to Supertouring. He must think very highly of them to spend this much time posting to Supertouring message threads... either that or he's got a lot of spare time on his hands

Me... I quite liked some of the Supertouring racing, but think Super 2000 is a better category for international motorsport. As far as the existing ST cars, if they can only manage 6 cars per meeting, then combine with another group of 2 litre cars is the way to go (e.g. BTCC class 2 running Superproduction spec cars).

But that wasn't one of the options listed - Sports Sedans implies Turbo's, V8's etc.

[twig]

i just think its a case of not making the Super Tourers any worse then they do now......i loved the BOC season with the Orix Audis with Brad Jones against Paul Morris and Geoff Brabham, but at the moment, the catagory is at its lowest, and if there were ANY option to give them a more attention grabbing name, then joining up with Sports Sedans is the way to go.

Although both series are completely different. Introducing concepts is the only way changes and plans come about

[DNQ]

I liked the idea behind ST racing when it began, was said when it started to fade, and the Bathurst 1000 didnt take off, but now I think its time to end a seperate championship for ST's, there's just isnt enough interest.

But by all means, join the Sports Sedans.

[RaceTime]

D.R.T. - ST's may put on some decent racing when they have good fields, but NOT as a series by themselves anymore.

They are doing more harm than good by presenting consistently low numbered fields in all the categories - the general public take one look at 6 to 10 car fields and this vision remains with them for all other race meetings except V8's.

The outcome of this is that ANY other race meeting then gets tarnished with the same brush regardless of how good they are.

Like I have said before - race meetings need to cater NOT to the dedicated race fan, but the ordinary family person.

The dedicated fan will go and watch two flies race - but they don;t provide sufficient income for motor racing - this has to come from the family person who wants a reasonably priced days entertainment.

[mtpanorama]

Originally posted by D.R.T.
Yeah Panourama, whats the point of this thread, something you have done to try and make yourself feel big. Give it up, it achieves nothin, so why do it. Motorsport is motorsport it comes in all different shapes and sizes but everyone involved it in has a common passion, except maybe you. Super Touring is great, along with many other categories, and has touched many peoples hearts and still does, the ASTC 02 thread is evidence of that. Its not at its strongest now, but why have a go at the people, myself included, who want to continue their passion for this form of racing.

The point of this thread is to see what people think of ST. There has been great debate in the other thread, so i thought i would start a poll. I think it acheives a lot. As you can see a lot of people think they should join up with Sports sedans . I think this is the best move also. The problem at the moment is the small feilds and that is annoying most people. I have enjoyed super tourers, the racing USED to be great.But there is more excitement at a club race meeting ,and a lot better value for money.
So if you dont like my poll, dont come here and vote, simple as that

[Amaroo Park]

Super Touring has died, Turn off the bloody life support and let it die peacefully. The racing was good a long long time ago but for the last 4 years at least it has been dreadful. Enough is enough.............................

[rocket]

i thought it was a privateers cup nowdays

[kmchow]

So Sport Sedans have a 2L category? I think that is good. Have a 2L Sport Sedan, as well as a 2L ST class. I think joining up with another series is a nice. But I don't think ST should be racing on the track with a hodge/podge of other "miscellaneous" cars.

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by kmchow
But I don't think ST should be racing on the track with a hodge/podge of other "miscellaneous" cars.

Why not - to be blunt about it, they are already so mismatched it isn't funny...

[Crash Test]

I don't mind super tourers, or super tourers joining Sports Sedans, so long as it doesn't open up the rules allowing all Sports Sedans to use sequential boxes.

What I do have a problem with is having a class that pretends to be something that it isn't. You can't fool people forever with all of the positive spin in the world... a lot of people would be very disappointed with 6 car fields. Why are there 6 car fields? Are the cars too expensive to run? What are the issues here? If they pulled out decent fields with decent racing, then the class would have every right to be taken seriously in its own right...

[racer69]

If there are people willing to run and race the cars, then it should be allowed to run individually, but the grids do need to be increased urgently. As i've stated before the series requires stability, which it hasn't had unfortunatly in the past 18 months.

On U2L SS, why not just state in the rules that the only cars allowed to run sequentials are FIA homologated Super Tourers.

[Crash Test]

And it has already been done, except for rear wheel drives, just to stick it up the BMWs! Really, there are only a handful of front wheel drive SSedans out there, and none of their owners would ever dream of having sequential type dollars...

BTW- Super Dooper BTC Champion Production Cars have no place around here... we already have 20 categories too many.... why not run in the Procar show? You can change the buggery out of cars there by any standard.... Why should we water the gene pool any more??

[D.R.T.]

Originally posted by mtpanorama
The point of this thread is to see what people think of ST. There has been great debate in the other thread, so i thought i would start a poll. I think it acheives a lot. As you can see a lot of people think they should join up with Sports sedans . I think this is the best move also. The problem at the moment is the small feilds and that is annoying most people. I have enjoyed super tourers, the racing USED to be great.But there is more excitement at a club race meeting ,and a lot better value for money.
So if you dont like my poll, dont come here and vote, simple as that

I didn't vote. But I my anger was more directed at your very negative tone through out your post. Sure find out what people think about what direction the series should take in the future, but why go and bag the S%#t out of them.

Colin, 4 years ago was the 1999 Championship and happen to probably be the best championship in Australia that year with quite amazing racing. Sure the past 3 years havent set anything on fire, but dont discount one of the greatest years in the ASTC

[GTRMagic]

I would have said privateers cup would be being generous. The cars in the ASTEM series are tatty and some over 10 years old now...

A club race meeting tends to have better presentation of vehicles unfortunately....

[Buckshot]

I received VIP tickets to go see the Super Tourers at Oran Park back in...99 would it have been ? The Volvos were still in it.

Even back then most of the field was being held together with race tape.

[D.R.T.]

You be extremely wrong with that staement there Buckshot. Which round at OP did you go to. Anyway all the cars were well presneted there that year.A great year that one. This year aswell, which cars do you see as not well presneted, The 2 BMWs look outstanding out on the track, the blac and Yellow of the Alfa and David Towe's Nissan which sadly spent most of the Op round 2 sundays ago in the pits, looked very nice aswell.

[a_r_c_a]

Went to buy me a paper at the local news-stand and then I heard them laugh and say "I love Motorsport!"

[Buckshot]

I was in the BOC Gases VIP Tent not 5 metres from the starting grid. I could not believe how shabby the cars looked compared to the V8 Supercar round I'd attended earlier that year. I remember looking at them at the time and thinking that.

It was a special meeting they held with the Supertrucks and even the trucks looked in better condition.

[D.R.T.]

Yeah Bucky I was at that around aswell and it was a very special day, great racing that day.
be specific, whcih cars looked shabby. Well presented cars were, 2 Volvos, 2 Audi's, Morris BMW, @ Mondeos were awesome, SAE BMW, Robson Honda, COrnish Nissan, Newmans car looked alright, not mechanically sound sadly, .

[Buckshot]

A special day ? Race 1 had Jim Richards in the Volvo trying to get around Morris from what I can remember these 2 cars almost lapped the field with the Audi about 1/2 a lap behind them. Richards had some sort of mechanical problem and the factory Volvo team couldn't even get their star on the grid for the rest of the day.

The only other challenger to Morris that day was the Audi which blew up.

So only 3 cars were reallistically in it and 2 of those blew up after giving it a go anyway.

Please D.R.T, let them rest...they served you well and provided good entertainment for a few years but please...let them go my friend...let these wandering corpses find eternal peace.

[racer69]

There were only really 2 contenders, Richards and Morris, and when the mood took him, Brad Jones, for victory in 1999, and there were great battles (and heated) between Morris and Richards.

The reason Richo didn't start race 3 was because during race 2 he went side by side with Morris across the dog leg and thumped the kerb, which cracked the engine block, and when they realised there was a problem just prior to race 3 (it finished the 2nd race with what looked like no problems), there wasn't enough time for an engine change. Jones made that race though, he was inspired, his car blew up right infront of me.

The biggest disappointment that day was the trucks, they built it up to be a big weekend, and was treated that way, yet only 8 trucks turned up

[Champ69]

The super tourers where great. Bathurst in 1997 and 1998 where fantastic. Its just a shame that they died, but look at the BTCC that is a bit of a joke.

So in answer to the pole. I am not sure what they should do, but it is a shame if they do nothing.