If your not a member.....

[rick vaux]

All of you marshalls making the journey to Brands Hatch for the FF festival , hang on...
If you are not a member of the BRSCC, you will NOT be allowed to marshal this event.....
Yes , the BRSCC are self-sufficient in marshalls...
I will remember that in future....

[EvilPumpkin]

rick can you paste the copy of the email here please - I didn't receive one.

Thanks.

[rick vaux]

It was just a reply to an email i sent EP, I will do a quick copy in a couple of mins, hang on...

[wiggles]

Pppppt.... That sucks. I was quite looking forward to that (as a BMMC member).

[rick vaux]

OK...

Marshalling for the FFF is closed to BRSCC members only, if you are a member no problem, send me your address and i will send you the s/o times and some tickets.
If you are not a member i will still send you some tickets so you can come and spectate...

Alec Spooner.

[EvilPumpkin]

Well it's nice that he's prepared to send you tickets anyway. This doesn't bode well for me though. I signed up months ago and I've already paid for plane tickets and car hire

It would have been nice to be notified of this as well

[rick vaux]

In previous chats on this and other forums i have had with Stephen, he is of the belief that we ARE allowed to marshal.
I have sent him an e-mail to notify him otherwise, will see what he has to say...watch this space...

[Chigley]

Oh boy, and we wonder why marshals are quitting the sport. How many more holes can BRSCC shoot into their feet?? This compounds the farce that I experienced a couple of years ago regarding camping facilities for the FFF. It was concerning lack of facilities and security for pitching a tent rather than parking a caravan in the paddock. I was politely told then that BRSSS-SE did not really cater for visiting marshals as they had enough members within their own clique.
Would anyone from BRSCC care to defend Alec's stance that BRSCC-SE is apparently an independent automonous club which is not interested in the rest of the country. How would the Brand's people feel if they were excluded from meetings other than their own. No Goodwood FoS or Revival, boy that would hurt. Remember these events are oversubscribed so selective allocation ala Alec is possible.

[turbo-ww]

I have just spoken to Alec Spooner and he would like to set things a little straight.

The FFF has always been closed to marshals that are not members of the BRSCC, with the exception of a number of visitors from abroad. EPW, I would imagine it would include you.

The reason for this is the same as for the GP. Everyone wants to do it. Somehow numbers have to be limited.

Alec also states that he would accept ANYONE that can attend all 3 days. (Fri, Sat & Sun)

Anyone that has signed up via the allocation sheets that has been accepted should receive SO times, tickets etc within the next week.

And no, I am not an official of the BRSCC, merely a marshal like the rest of us.

[Tony_J]

I was a member of the BRSCC [and several other motor clubs for quite a few years] and did the annual trek down to Brands for the FFF for a good several years. Me & the other half spent the week down there doing testing etc.
Now I just belong to the BMMC. With the motor clubs its a case of split loyalty - they were established primarily for the drivers, the marshalling element came along later to provide a pool of 'club' marshals. At the end of the day their primary functions & interests are still driver orientated. From a marshalling perspective the more organisations you have the more split loyalty you have when it comes to long days, bad conditions etc. You can't complain so loudly when its your own club 'doing the dirty'. I suspect that organisers and circuits know this and deliberately, or otherwise, follow the old adage 'divide & conquer' in pursuit of their own aims.

[EvilPumpkin]

Well I think we're ok then as we were always planning to do the 3 days. I found out why Alec couldn't contact me - he had my old email address!

Thanks for getting in touch turbo - I've mailed Alec directly.

[Piglet]

Originally posted by turbo-ww

The reason for this is the same as for the GP. Everyone wants to do it. Somehow numbers have to be limited.

I'm not having a dig here Turbo, I am actually interested,

Why do numbers have to be limited?? GP numbers have to be limited because the FIA/FOM etc., say so and will only issue a limited number of tabbards per discipline (probably so that Marshals don't make the TV coverage untidy and require too much use of the Marshallator (right word EP?)).

GP numbers are also regulated by a requirement of having done 15 days in that year so they "reward" (ha!) those that marshal frequently.

Do I understand from what's been said that the BRSCC get soooo many applications from those that wish to marshal that they can't find posts for them all?

It just seems a bit odd when the BRSCC are screaming out to all and sundry for assistance at this weekend's FIA GT meeting at Donington that they have so many bods for the FFF that they can happily turn down people that perhaps marshal reguarly for them but only choose to be members of one Club?

As I say I'm not having a dig at anyone I'm just interested in the logic of it all.

[brickkicker]

It just seems a bit odd when the BRSCC are screaming out to all and sundry for assistance at this weekend's FIA GT meeting at Donington

Is it realy going to be that bad?? I heard a few have sent tickets back and that a lot had stayed away as there are a lot of other meetings on this weekend.
I guess it will be 1 per post again this friday and probably not much better on the saturday. Maybee if its cancelled due to lack of marshals it might make them look at the way they are (mis)treated

[Piglet]

Brickkicker, it may be no worse than normal and to be honest I'm only going on what I've heard from people. I was just using it as a contrast to the fact that the BRSCC seem to be overstaffed for the FFF and can afford to restrict it to their own members but will probably only be adequately staffed for another major event.

[rick vaux]

Agreed Bricky, what ****es me off the most, is i`m the stupid **** who will do a three day event, and have done.
Know the boots on the other foot, we can all **** off if were not members of the BRSCC, WELL THEY CAN **** THEMSELVES this weekend....i was going to do all three days but not now.....

[rick vaux]

Roll on the jAGUAR car club...

[micaz43]

As someone who has had a lot of input into this weekend at Donington i would like to point out that BRSCC MIDLANDS is running this and not BRSCC SE. There has been a lot of arguments within BRSCC over this meet as HQ wanted to take over with there own marshals and were told by mids centre that if they do they will have no input of any discription from CoC to C marshal. If the SE want to be picky and pathetic so to speak then let them but I can reassure anyone who wants to do this weekend then YOU ARE ALL WELCOME NO MATTER HOW MANY DAYS YOU CAN DO. 1 DAY IS BETTER THAN NO DAYS AT ALL. MIDLANDS APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU CAN GIVE ENVEN TO THE EXTENT THAT JOHN SADLER HAS ARRANGED SOME SORT OF PACK UP FOR US. PLEASE DON'T TAR ALL BRSCC CLUBS WITH THE SAME BRUSH.


for the record I am a BMMC member only.

[rick vaux]

Good point, yep just spoken to a good freind , he said the same thing to me..So back on the M1 for me on Saturday..Not so sure about the infeild camping though...

[rick vaux]

M43, thanks for the imformation.
No rest assured, you are too far away from Brands to be tared with the same brush...!At least you will welcome members from other clubs.
I have just sent an e-mail to Alec Spooner, to let him into the little secret that i`m not too happy about the way things are organised. That puts it mildly...
Well hope to see you during the weekend...

[Claire]

I have regularly marshaled for the BRSCC-SE branch and have volunteered for the festival but only for one day, I am not a member so I guess I won't be able to help. If that is the case I will be thinking quite seriously about whether I will be continuing there or concentrate on another circuit. I am always being told, as a trainee, that there is never enough marshals and although this is a big event why should "guests" be treated any differently. I will contact Alec and see what he has to say, if they don't want me I will go to Snetterton and help the 750MC they don't seem to mind that I am not a member.

[Bodysnatcher]

An awful lot of sarcasm and bitterness welling up here. TurboWW summed the (official) situation up precisely right at the beginning, but some of us just have to go on and on.

chigley starts it

Would anyone from BRSCC care to defend Alec's stance that BRSCC-SE is apparently an independent automonous club which is not interested in the rest of the country. How would the Brand's people feel if they were excluded from meetings other than their own. No Goodwood FoS or Revival, boy that would hurt.

Yes I would.
Major point - this is not a Brands thing it's a BRSCC thing (not just BRSCC - SE). The 2 things can be entirely different.
The BRSCC is an autonomous club, I pay membership fees, and if the club has more than enough (of it's own) marshals for one of it's events then, sorry to the rest of you, but thats how it is. Can you imagine the fury of BRSCC (SE especially) members if we were told that due to a coach load of marshals coming down from circuit X that we would not be required?
As for other popular events imposing a limit on non members - I could live with that. Or stump up the money if I really wanted to be there.

piglet says

Do I understand from what's been said that the BRSCC get soooo many applications from those that wish to marshal that they can't find posts for them all?

They certainly used to have that problem, but since I'm not one of the chiefs I don't know what the situation is now. There is a limit to how many marshals can be on post before overcrowding becomes a problem. Think back to the heady days of BTCC in the 90's.
I remember getting well ****ed off turning up at a BTCC meet to be told I was not required on circuit - but I could mark tyres with a spot of paint if I wished. Numbers were limited then. This was partly due to the influx of marshals from other circuits who followed the BTCC everywhere, a situation that may be happening again.
Finally, soooo looks soooo patronising does'nt it?

then we have micaz43

If the SE want to be picky and pathetic ..

where does the pathetic come in to it? - your SHOUTING does'nt really help me see your argument as being objective.
But you're right, Donington this weekend is a completely different affair, stop trying to tie the two events together in some tenuous fashion. Donington seems to have it's own problems.

So, to those of you that have marshalled at Brands BRSCC events in the past whilst being non-members - thanks, and I hope you enjoyed being at Brands. Sorry you can't join us unless you're willing to commit to 3 days. You could join the BRSCC of course.....

Again I'm just an ordinary Brands marshal - a voluntary member of the BRSCC (cos thats who coincidentally run most of the meetings I do) and the BMMC (seemed like a good idea)

[EvilPumpkin]

Ok can I make a suggestion here - there's an awful lot of supposition about what's happening and some heated words. Do you think it might make more sense to wait for Alec Spooner's response to the various email queries that have been sent before summarily trying and executing both him and the BRSCC?

Body makes a very valid point - BRSCC marshals pay dues to their club and therefore they are entitled to first "dibs" on any BRSCC event - I'm sure none of the BMMC members would be delighted to find they were excluded from an event because non-members had snaffled all the postings.

I personally will not be very happy if it turns out that I am not marshalling at this event after all - as I'm sure you're aware, there is considerable expense involved in travelling from Ireland to the UK and arranging transport and accommodation. Having said that, I respect and support the right of ANY marshalling club to decide who they are sending out on the banks.

Let's just give the CM a chance to respond before flying off the handle shall we?

[Bodysnatcher]

Alec probably won't respond in a public forum. He works better on a 1 to 1 basis.
Remember he's a volunteer too, and vitriolic personal criticism stemming from a misunderstanding of the situation is'nt going to endear this place to him.

TurboWW clearly stated the club's policy after speaking to Alec.
Can't add to it.

[Stephen Green]

There's very little I can add (someone earlier was waiting for my comments). A a member of the BRSCC I can confirm that the rule about being a member to marshal the FFF has been in place for some years. We will all have to wait for Alec's response. Like BS and Turbo, I am not prepared to speak on his behalf.

I will say that there comes a point at ANY circuit, where the maximum number of marshals is reached and they are unable to accept any more. It is my understanding that all circuits are licenced for a maximum (and hopefully minimum) number of marshals for insurance purposes and I suspect this is what has driven the rule to be implemented in the past.

As for the BRSCC SE taking their own marshals to Donington, that's a new one on me. In my many years of marshalling I have never been asked to travel to another circuit as a member of a particular 'centre' to replace the marshals of the same club at 'their' own track. As BS rightly points out, with regard to the FFF it states you have to be a BRSCC marshal, not a BRSCC SE marshal.

Let's all take a deep breath and see what Alec has to say either privately or publicly.

[paul.hickman]

This 'members only' policy is not new. It has been around for at least 10 years, it is not Alec's policy and (in my understanding) is applicable only to BRSCC SE.

As to whether it is 'right' is a matter for that Club - clearly they believe that they have enough marshals for all their events (not just the 'majors'). Seems interesting though when most clubs are crying out for additional help (e.g. the Jaguar Car Club at Silverstone this weekend)...

Finally, on a personal note, Alec is a lovely bloke who has done much to repair the damage caused by other 'chiefs' to the BRSCC SE over the years.