Pretty Damn Mad

muggle not · 17 Jul 2002, 21:31 (Ref:336036)

Racers at Nashville Speedway gang up to have female driver Deborah Renshaw disqualified. Read both articles!!!! There is no place in racing for this in any series.

http://www.tennessean.com/sports/mo...ent_ID=19931883

http://www.tennessean.com/sports/mo...ent_ID=19931883
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

muggle not · 17 Jul 2002, 22:57 (Ref:336116)

Sorry...try these sites.

http://www.tennessean.com/sports/mot...nt_ID=19931883

http://www.tennessean.com/sports/mot...nt_ID=19996827

Fab · 18 Jul 2002, 05:48 (Ref:336234)

Those stupid guys don't know what they are missing... Milka, we love ya !

racer69 · 18 Jul 2002, 06:21 (Ref:336236)

That is disgraceful. All the drivers involved in the plot deserve a severe punishment.

cybersdorf · 18 Jul 2002, 07:16 (Ref:336249)

Scottie Smothers...

FG1 · 18 Jul 2002, 07:24 (Ref:336253)

This is outrageous. It's such a shame that they actually found a problem. But it sounds as though the rules in that series are just begging to be abused.

cybersdorf · 18 Jul 2002, 07:25 (Ref:336254)

http://www.compgraphics.com/drivers/markday.html
Telling Mr. Mark Day how you feel about the whole thing is legal but of course unethical.
http://www.deborahrenshaw.com/
Come road racing, Deb, that's where the intelligent people are!

hgb · 18 Jul 2002, 08:16 (Ref:336283)

Are these guys gay or what ?

Truckosaurus · 18 Jul 2002, 08:50 (Ref:336306)

Quote:

''This has aggravated the hell out of me. I've never been so mad,'' country music entertainer Cletus T. Judd said yesterday.

...and I thought I had a comedy name.

AllonFS · 18 Jul 2002, 09:02 (Ref:336314)

Bloody hell, how do these guys hold a wheel with the blisters they must have from their knuckles dragging on the ground as they walk. I very rarely do such things, but I went straight to her website and posted a message of support. One of many I'm sure, but this sort of thing can not be allowed to go on.

It made me think a bit about motor-racing. It worries me that it seems like 95% of the successful racing drivers out there are male and white. Then maybe 4.5% male and Japanese, and .5% or less female and/or from a different ethnic background. Is this because white men are better racers? Of course not. I think we need to ask ourselves some questions about our sport and why there aren't better opportunities out there for anyone with talent to succeed. I fear part of the problem might be us the fans. We are predominately male and white and while I think everyone here supports drivers based on their ability, but there are other attitudes we need to consider. For example does 100,000 people in the tribunes wolf-whistling the Hawaian Tropic girls, or guys walking in to walls whilst leering at the MG girls, (yes I did see it happen!) encourage women to attend races as fans, get interested in the sport, or be taken seriously as a driver?

I don't want to be too downbeat, but I am worried that our sport that could be described as institutionally sexist and racist. Maybe I am on my own on this one, I will be interested to what people's responses are.

cybersdorf · 18 Jul 2002, 09:33 (Ref:336335)

Quote:

Originally posted by AllonFS
Bloody hell, how do these guys hold a wheel with the blisters they must have from...

...exactly. Easy there, boys - you'll go blind!

FG1 · 18 Jul 2002, 09:41 (Ref:336343)

Quote:

Originally posted by AllonFS
I don't want to be too downbeat, but I am worried that our sport that could be described as institutionally sexist and racist. Maybe I am on my own on this one, I will be interested to what people's responses are.

I largely agree, but attitudes are changing, and people no longer regard the presence of pretty girls around sporting events as necessarily sexist. I'm not so sure, and I'm not to sure I want any of my four daughters to behave the way the Tropic Girls did this year!

The question of ethnic origin is different, and I have also long been uncomfortable with the current white domination of the sport. But I think this will change over the next few years. Frankly it has to.

The sport can change, I'm thankful that the tobacco industry has been forced out. It will continue to evolve. Sadly, some people feel uncomfortable even with sensible change.

FG

cybersdorf · 18 Jul 2002, 09:49 (Ref:336345)

Quote:

Originally posted by AllonFS
For example does 100,000 people in the tribunes wolf-whistling the Hawaian Tropic girls, or guys walking in to walls whilst leering at the MG girls, (yes I did see it happen!) encourage women to attend races as fans, get interested in the sport, or be taken seriously as a driver?

Are these the fans that count, though. They are idiots, and idiots are everywhere.

The way I see it, you become interested in racing because you like the cars. The people around it don't really matter. I guess women generally have a different attitude towards the car as such; they tend to see it more as a useful appliance than as a plaything (that's the male domain), therefore they generally use it to go from point A to B, and not round in circles. With notable exceptions, of course; and they are getting more which is good to see.

As for colour of skin, the affluent people in this world tend to be white rather than anything else. Cars are expensive. Motorsport is expensive. Africa, for instance, has other things to worry about than racing.

I don't think any kind of "affirmative action" makes sense in something that is based on an individual's talent, such as racing or any other sport. You have it, or you don't - no matter what you look like. As the social attitudes in our society change (albeit slowly), and more people have access to cars and exposure to racing as a sport, I think we will over time see more women, and more people of different colours of skin (I don't like to use the word "race" in any other than the "racing" context) in motorsport. After all, they are all equal with their helmets on.

AllonFS · 18 Jul 2002, 10:00 (Ref:336358)

Quote:

Originally posted by cybersdorf
After all, they are all equal with their helmets on.

Superb way of putting it.

muggle not · 18 Jul 2002, 11:57 (Ref:336444)

This is Deborah's website.

http://www.deborahrenshaw.com/1.cfm

click on the news tab & read the story from July 14th.
__________________

EvilPumpkin · 18 Jul 2002, 13:21 (Ref:336492)

Interesting response from Fairgrounds...

http://www.fairgroundsspeedway.net/2...o_the_fans.htm

Maybe they should change their name to "Cheatgrounds" or "Chauvenistgrounds" as long as they continue to let this kind of idiocy continue. Then again, I guess evil clowns are associated with Fairgrounds.....!

The very fact that a driver is actually uncomfortable with driving at their circuit because they are unsure what lengths other drivers might to go to to get rid of them......now that bothers me. It's beyond some kind of petty vendetta and into intimidation of the worst kind.

cybersdorf · 18 Jul 2002, 13:53 (Ref:336508)

Quote:

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
Maybe they should change their name to "Cheatgrounds" or "Chauvenistgrounds"...

"Double Cross Park"

Those gentlemen should all be driving for Pontiac, seeing as they are such Grand Prix...

AllonFS · 18 Jul 2002, 14:29 (Ref:336542)

Quote:

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
It's beyond some kind of petty vendetta and into intimidation of the worst kind.

Exactly, next time it could be because a driver is a different colour, creed, sexuality etc. It's mean, small-minded and on one level, quite scary. The only way this sort of thing will be stopped is by people not accepting this behaviour where ever it happens; at the racetrack, at work, in public etc. There is no excuse for bigotry, and that is what those guys were, bigots.

FG1 · 18 Jul 2002, 14:54 (Ref:336566)

Quote:

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
Interesting response from Fairgrounds...

I have to say that I think that the response is measured and sensible. Reading between the lines they are disgusted by the male drivers' antics and want to encourage Renshaw back. They have changed their rules to help prevent this sort of thing happening again.

Regs are Regs and should be abided with. This is not dis-similar to what happened to Richard Burns not so long ago. The difference is that in Renshaw's case the inspection was provoked by some narrow-minded idiots. It's these idiots that need to be dealt with, and the rules must not encourage idiots to take advantage of them. The circuit has at least taken a step in the right direction.

FG

EvilPumpkin · 18 Jul 2002, 15:45 (Ref:336608)

I guess, FG. It's just that if it's got to the extent where someone is scared to drive there for fear of "reprisals" of some kind, I would hope that the circuit would take more affimative action - like promising that the next driver to behave like that will be barred. Even if they can't do anything to the existing people, making it clear that such a thing won't be tolerated again would be preferable.

That's just me though.

Graham Goodwin · 18 Jul 2002, 16:37 (Ref:336636)

Rules are Rules but this incident stinks in just the sort of way that the Ferrari F1 incident did - It abuses the rule book, makes the sport look ridiculous and treats the fans as inconsequential - and that's without going into the sexual politics of it all.

What would be a nice response from the powers that be would be to check out all the cars in the division at scrutineering for the same 'offence' next time out.

Bet they wouldn't pull the same stunt again if that happened!!

Liz · 18 Jul 2002, 17:16 (Ref:336667)

While I'm not generally a fan of women driving race cars (for various reasons unrelated to their talent or ability), this entire event is a throwback to the stuff I thought we had finally overcome in the 1970s. Back then and before then all women who wished to succeed in any business at all were routinely treated in this way, believe it or not. (I was told that my grades and scores on the LSAT were "good enough for a man to get into law school, but not for a girl.")

But I think the answer to this kind of behaviour is continued public outcry against it -- as apparently has been happening, culminating in a Connie Chung interview next week -- and the continued affluence of society in general so that people who cannot now afford to race will be able to do so. Remember it wasn't that long ago that ice hockey was 100% white North Americans. Now the vast majority appear to be Scandinavian! And any Scandinavian who played in the 1970s will tell you that they went through just what this young woman is going through.

Graham Goodwin · 18 Jul 2002, 17:26 (Ref:336676)

As far as I'm concerned it just shouldn't be an issue - If you're quick you're quick, if you're not, you're not.

One thing though, these things have a habit of coming home to roost. Live by the rules, die by the rules - If you abuse the spirit of the thing it will usually come back to haunt you.

FG1 · 18 Jul 2002, 18:52 (Ref:336769)

Quote:

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
It's just that if it's got to the extent where someone is scared to drive there for fear of "reprisals" of some kind, I would hope that the circuit would take more affimative action

I completely agree here. But these threats may not have been made within the circuit authorities' earshot, or I hope that they would have acted. Such threats are intolerable, but I should think it hard to prove that they were made. But authorities should act quickly to let it be known that such behaviour will not be tolerated. This is quite independent of the gender question!

FG

FG1 · 18 Jul 2002, 20:06 (Ref:336844)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
While I'm not generally a fan of women driving race cars (for various reasons unrelated to their talent or ability),

Reasons being ..?

FG

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