MGB - how old for historic racing events ?

[alymcleod]

Dear all,
I'm new here so this may have been covered. I am ready to buy an MGB for the second time in 30 years! I would like to race/rally with the FIA regs but it looks as if they only accept up to 1967 MGB cars. Am I correct ? I would love to do Monte Carlo, Spa and the many other events in mainland Europe (I'm based in Mallorca). The later marque of MGB with rubber bumpers are so much cheaper and lend themselves well to being rebuilt as a race/rally car pound for pound - with lowered suspension and Sebring valences of course. Mechanically they look identical. Can anybody point me in the right direction ?

[Alan Morgan]

I'm no expert on MGB's myself, and I'm somewhat surprised that your post has been here for nearly an hour without a reply.

I don't think you'll have long to wait, though...

[Peter Mallett]

In the absence of JR who is probably on holiday as usual,

I think the App K FIA period for the MGB for historic racing was 1962 to 1965 thus the post 1975 rubber bumper version, no matter how you build it will not be suitable. Likewise I think there is a post historic rallying class but I'm not sure what dates that covers, however I suspect the heavier rubber bumper chassis may be unsuitable.

That said you can build one to the spec you suggest and run it in modified classes and to that end I recommend you contact the MG Car Club www.mgcc.com. There's loads of people there who would be delighted to assist.

Welcome to our friendly forum and let us know how you get on.

[Mike Sweeney]

Originally Posted by alymcleod

Dear all,
I'm new here so this may have been covered. I am ready to buy an MGB for the second time in 30 years! I would like to race/rally with the FIA regs but it looks as if they only accept up to 1967 MGB cars. Am I correct ? I would love to do Monte Carlo, Spa and the many other events in mainland Europe (I'm based in Mallorca). The later marque of MGB with rubber bumpers are so much cheaper and lend themselves well to being rebuilt as a race/rally car pound for pound - with lowered suspension and Sebring valences of course. Mechanically they look identical. Can anybody point me in the right direction ?

You are correct - the only car eligible for FIA events (plus papers of course) is the MK1 Tourer, produced until 1967. The cut off date for FIA historic motor sport is 1965 (Appendix K) but as the model continued relatively unchanged for another 2 years you can use a '67 car.

Later cars are certainly cheaper, because for a number of reasons they are less desirable.

You pays your money and takes your choice...

[Mike Bell]

Yes, and where's Terence when you need him!

As another non expert, I'll try and help- the rules for Racing to FIA App K have, 1965 as cut off, so for any events run to that cars have to have been built up to end of 65 or to same specification as. Problem with MGB is later cars have different transmission tunnel so you can't just take a 1968 shell and build to earlier spec. Having said that I believe you can now buy a new shell from Heritage with earlier style tunnel. For Rallying rules in UK are different (not FIA) and cut off date for 'Historic' class is 1967. Then you get into more modern classes where later MGB can run in correct period spec- with rubber bumpers if necessary!

If you want to do Tours, rallies etc there will normally be a class which later B will slot into, if you want to do FIA App K then has to be 1965 or earlier.

[alymcleod]

Thanks gentlemen, I'm of Northern decent so the rubber bumper cars were of course much more appealing to my short arms and long pockets. In Private Frazers parlance "Aye - we're a' doomed, doomed a tell ye!" :-)

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by alymcleod

Thanks gentlemen, I'm of Northern decent so the rubber bumper cars were of course much more appealing to my short arms and long pockets. In Private Frazers parlance "Aye - we're a' doomed, doomed a tell ye!" :-)

Short arms and long pockets do not auger well for building an Appendix K 'B' they are not a cheap car to build and develop. I would suggest there are less expensive options to what you are considering.

[simon drabble]

there is an FIA MGB which seems half race half rally on racecars direct priced at 17k which seems pretty cheap if all together. You have one of teh most fun rallies on your doorstep. We have owned a place in Puerto Pollensa for 30+ years and I have often thought this rally woudl be a great thing to do - you see the island in the spring at its very best

[midgetman]

There are a number of non-FIA racing series on the continent where a non-FIA car is welcome. I'm no expert on Bs (hence the screen-name!) but late Midget shells can be "restored" to earlier spec sympathetically by removing the internal bumper strengthening, and other details are not extensive enough to cause a problem.

Pieter Bakker will doubtless be along soon with details of his Legendary Circuits series which comes highly recommended:

http://www.fisc-eurotour.org/Legendary-Circuits.html

Have fun!

[skentellytubby]

The one on Racecars Direct looks pretty promising (as long as you are English - what is with the colour scheme!?)

The spec looks right in general, although I'm not sure about the springs. If its got 48DCOE carbs then its probably a 1950cc or more which is bigger than the homologated engine size, but will still get you in plenty of FIA races.

Mine cost £12,500 without papers, but I was lucky in that it was already 'there' in terms of correct spec. The engine is rally spec (torquey, only mildly tuned) so I fully expect to be at the back on the grid this year but it'll do for the time. Point is, it would be ideal for a bit of rallying and racing so I think you could find something if you have the time to wait?

However a 'really' good one will cost between £25 and £30K, a lot of money for an MGB!

Key thing is finding an early 'narrow transmission' body as this will get you to the races you want to do.

I'm sure I saw a narrow body for restoration somewhere for a reasonable sum very recently. This could be the way to go?

[terence]

I would hope that a 1950 running a 48 will not get into ANY FIA races!
[Even if the 48 has a 45 float chamber cover on it]
There are a couple of narrow tunnel cars on the market at present,under the 25k figure quoted,you'll not build one for that.Dont use a Sebring Front Valence,you WILL be told to get rid of it.

[skentellytubby]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I would hope that a 1950 running a 48 will not get into ANY FIA races!

Hmm!!

[zefarelly]

Don't worry skentellytubby, Terence has been daydreaming again

[terence]

Or taking too much notice of what some HTP inspectors tell me.

[alymcleod]

Hi TB,

Thanks for that. I thought - by looking at all the comp cars - that it was derigueur to fit the Sebring Valenve - or at least a similar item.
Do you know what is fitted to these cars ?

Thanks in advance,
Aly

Originally Posted by terence bower

I would hope that a 1950 running a 48 will not get into ANY FIA races!
[Even if the 48 has a 45 float chamber cover on it]
There are a couple of narrow tunnel cars on the market at present,under the 25k figure quoted,you'll not build one for that.Dont use a Sebring Front Valence,you WILL be told to get rid of it.

[terence]

Hi Aly,There are only two types of front valence allowed for AppK,they are the upto 67 plain type or the slightly later version with the two cooling slots in the middle. The Sebring version was only used after 67,which is of course,too late for AppK.You are allowed to use the rear one though,for some strange reason,but there should be a visible join to the rear panel,IE,not filled in.Brake cooling duct's were never used 'In Period' neither were the deeper versions that have been used for some of the cars built fairly recently.I should add that if you present your car for HTPs with anything other than the valences stated,you'll only be told to change it.You can however,'Flush fit' the standard versions,just makes the front look so much better.

[alymcleod]

Hi Gentlemen,

Thanks for your input so far. I have sourced some cars all pre '65 here in Spain which would make things easier viz - importation etc. Prices are high at 12,000 Euros. I would expect that this will double to make the car acceptable for FIA regs and to be fairly competitive. It's really going to be a road car for track days and of course Spa 6 hrs and other sporting events throughout Europe.

[terence]

I would plan on between double and trebble the 12k.You could pay that for the engine alone,if someone else builds it,tha is.

[esper]

An MGB racer on the road? I do remember Andrew Boggis returning to Paris in his MGB racer after the Spa 6hours in say 1996. He finished, but I do remember helping him to fill his diff at the service station on the motorway close to Luik/Liege, it lost some oil after six hours full speed at Spa , those where the days my friend!!!!!!!!!

[skentellytubby]

Originally Posted by terence bower

You can however,'Flush fit' the standard versions,just makes the front look so much better.

Should prob PM you, but what's the best way of doing this? Mine's not flush y'see
Cheers
Simon

[terence]

Originally Posted by esper

An MGB racer on the road? I do remember Andrew Boggis returning to Paris in his MGB racer after the Spa 6hours in say 1996. He finished, but I do remember helping him to fill his diff at the service station on the motorway close to Luik/Liege, it lost some oil after six hours full speed at Spa , those where the days my friend!!!!!!!!!

We shared the pit garage with Andrew that year Esper,CMS did the prep for it,we also changed the diff a couple of weeks after the 6hr.
In 1992,my first year at Spa,1 Barrys race and one FIA,I drove the car there,two qualies and one race on Saturday,Luxembourg for lunch Sunday,FIA race at 4 in the afternoon.A few beers in the De La Casscade Hotel then drove home on Monday,spash of oil and a set of pads was all she needed.

[terence]

Originally Posted by skentellytubby

Should prob PM you, but what's the best way of doing this? Mine's not flush y'see
Cheers
Simon

I'll send you the info a bit later Simon-I'm off out now.

[alymcleod]

Originally Posted by terence bower

We shared the pit garage with Andrew that year Esper,CMS did the prep for it,we also changed the diff a couple of weeks after the 6hr.
In 1992,my first year at Spa,1 Barrys race and one FIA,I drove the car there,two qualies and one race on Saturday,Luxembourg for lunch Sunday,FIA race at 4 in the afternoon.A few beers in the De La Casscade Hotel then drove home on Monday,spash of oil and a set of pads was all she needed.

Now THAT'S the spirit I yearn for

[terence]

Originally Posted by alymcleod

Now THAT'S the spirit I yearn for

What? The spirit drank in the Hotel Sunday night?

[alymcleod]

Terry,

I'm new to this and need some (lot of) guidance. I understand that the car has to be 1840cc using all standard parts. Is there something in the files of the FIA which tells me what I can change on the vehicle? For example, is one allowed to fit cross drilled brake discs ? Peter Burgess big valve cylinder head? gearbox I know you can change to close ratio, and the diff?? So many questions.....

Your knowledge is incomprehensible wise one and awe inspiring to my open plan head. Nothing to offer you - well perhaps free car rental in a cute MG when you come to majorcy :-)

Grovelingly yours,
Alastair
( ps- the west coast road, south to north is sublime )