Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

Spyderman · 23 Nov 2015, 12:40 (Ref:3592665)

It looks like Porsche are going down the BMW route. Not good.
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/p...-car-for-2017/

Mike E · 23 Nov 2015, 12:44 (Ref:3592667)

Lot's of ifs, buts and maybes in there!

How do you move a flat six forward a bit? Sounds like an odd solution.

Spyderman · 23 Nov 2015, 12:56 (Ref:3592672)

They have done it before (GT1)

Mike E · 23 Nov 2015, 13:25 (Ref:3592678)

The GT1 was a mid-engined Frankenstein's monster made from bits of old Porsches that were lying around. I'm not sure this is really the same situation.

wdave0 · 23 Nov 2015, 13:28 (Ref:3592680)

They could just build off the Cayman platform and avoid the waivers but that would booger the hierarchy of 911 at the top.

Spyderman · 23 Nov 2015, 13:53 (Ref:3592691)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

The GT1 was a mid-engined Frankenstein's monster made from bits of old Porsches that were lying around. I'm not sure this is really the same situation.

No , not the same, but I'm sure that some of the lessons learnt will be applied. This assuming that it will in fact be mid-engine.

Spyderman · 23 Nov 2015, 13:56 (Ref:3592693)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdave0

They could just build off the Cayman platform and avoid the waivers but that would booger the hierarchy of 911 at the top.

The "untouchable" status of the 911 also apparently killed off the bespoke mid-engine car, which I'm sure , would have been a far better option (for racing) as it could have had a platform designed specifically for it's engine placement, rather than a modified MMB platform.

Fogelhund · 23 Nov 2015, 14:10 (Ref:3592698)

Porsche are the Kings of the Kansas City Shuffle... until the car is actually on the ground, I would wait to come to any conclusions... it isn't as if Porsche hasn't completely tried to mislead everyone before.

Richard C · 23 Nov 2015, 16:50 (Ref:3592721)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The "untouchable" status of the 911 also apparently killed off the bespoke mid-engine car, which I'm sure , would have been a far better option (for racing) as it could have had a platform designed specifically for it's engine placement, rather than a modified MMB platform.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdave0

They could just build off the Cayman platform and avoid the waivers but that would booger the hierarchy of 911 at the top.

That is somewhat my reading on this as well. I LOVE Porsche and am a HUGE fan, but they have to move beyond the insecurity of racing something other than the 911 in top level GT. Are you listening Porsche! Have some self confidence!? You just won the WEC for heaven's sake!

It sounds like an attempt at GT1 style mid-engine "911". I assume this is 100% a marketing driven decision. They are fooling nobody. Or at least anyone who would buy a 911 because it races in top level GTE... they would understand what is going on.

Frankly I hope the other manufactures make a stink.

Richard

Richard C · 23 Nov 2015, 16:58 (Ref:3592725)

This is what should be the basis for the next Porsche GTE car...

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2016-po...-track-weapon/

That Cayman GT4 Clubsport... I would sell my soul to have that car

Or... if they don't want to push the Cayman to the top level, then bring out a direct competitor to the Ferrari 488 as has been rumoured for so long. I have to wonder if the entire VW diesel emission debacle (which Porsche has been pulled into a bit) is part of the reason Porsche is not taking on the Ferrari 488 directly. Effectively maybe a money thing?

Richard

Pole2Win · 23 Nov 2015, 21:51 (Ref:3592786)

Looks like they'll remain with inferior car and will take the route of crying BOP instead. Pretty disappointed with Porsche.

The 911 is currently the car with the least potential in GTE, because of the engine. Not only it's theoretically the weakest (lowest displacement, for starters), but it also still has a poor placement despite Porsche having moved the engine a bit forward in the 991 road car to improve handling and stability.

If they use the Carrera engine they'll still be handicapped by the engine because it's only 3.0L turbo while the next competitor is the Ford GT with a 3.5L but the GT is a far more advanced car than the 991.

If I were Porsche my first choice would be the mid-engine flat-8 car, but if I had to use a 911, I'd make a road 991 GT2 with a 3.8L flat-6 engine and base the GTE car around that. It would be a lot better alternative than homologating the Carrera.

**Adam43** · 23 Nov 2015, 22:24 (Ref:3592802)

No need to cry BOP surely? Wouldn't it just happen automatically? I'd keep it as it is, BOP makes it competitive in the dry and trounce everyone when it rains

This is why I don't 'get' the Ford GT. All that effort will just be removed by BOP. Am I missing something about GTE? (Genuine question)

TF110 · 23 Nov 2015, 22:29 (Ref:3592804)

We have yet to see how the 'new' bop works, but maybe it doesnt change. I was hoping for a 'baby 918'

Deleted · 23 Nov 2015, 22:32 (Ref:3592806)

It is pointless essentially.

And the last time Porsche had 911 that didn't rely mostly on BoP was probably circa 2011 with the cranky 997s getting beaten up. 2010 was already semi questionable pace wise despite the LM and Spa 24 wins

Richard C · 23 Nov 2015, 23:00 (Ref:3592814)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

No need to cry BOP surely? Wouldn't it just happen automatically? I'd keep it as it is, BOP makes it competitive in the dry and trounce everyone when it rains

This is why I don't 'get' the Ford GT. All that effort will just be removed by BOP. Am I missing something about GTE? (Genuine question)

In one way you are right. BOP is just a fact of life within GTE. So you don't have to have a 100% optimal solution. Bring a car and BOP it in the direction it needs (up or down). You could in fact even do as you suggest which is have an advantage in one area (better rear traction) and then BOP takes care of the rest.

What i think is right about something such as the Ford GT or the Ferrari 488, is that you start from a more ideal solution and then BOP balances overall performance, but hopefully part of that allows you to make the rest of the car overall easier to manage (be it easier to drive, easier to setup, less stress on the hardware, or whatever). In effect, it's maybe easier to slow a car down than to speed it up.

If we have to live with BOP (and we seems like we do), I would rather manufactures start with the best they can deliver (within reason and cost) and then BOP ensures (sadly) that it is a "good show".

Richard

carbsmith · 23 Nov 2015, 23:12 (Ref:3592817)

I'm not sure how this is a surprise worthy of particular disappointment when Porsche has been laughably outside the rule book for a long time. Petit Le Mans made a special point of the IMSA version especially being a practically entirely different class of car that happens to do similar lap times in the dry.

Deleted · 23 Nov 2015, 23:26 (Ref:3592823)

The only ones not running somehow faked specs car with secret exceptions and other nonsense breaks, ie the Ferrari (and possibly Ford now) do have my respect. However as much as I ridicule Aston Martin for their old, underpowered, crappy vehicles and constant cries for moar, they might be the wisest of the bunch. Do not bother at all, just do the mere minimum to show up. And everything will be served to you even to the state of being the most succesful GT in statics. Porsche is not quite to that level, but has edged much closer to that in time. So maybe they are getting wiser too. Rulemakers certainly aren't!

Oh well. We can always remember the good days of 997 vs 430 and earlier.

Spyderman · 24 Nov 2015, 05:47 (Ref:3592908)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbsmith

I'm not sure how this is a surprise worthy of particular disappointment when Porsche has been laughably outside the rule book for a long time. Petit Le Mans made a special point of the IMSA version especially being a practically entirely different class of car that happens to do similar lap times in the dry.

Can you be more specific please: In what way is the current 911 "outside" the rule book?

Spyderman · 24 Nov 2015, 05:49 (Ref:3592909)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

The only ones not running somehow faked specs car with secret exceptions and other nonsense breaks, ie the Ferrari (and possibly Ford now) do have my respect. However as much as I ridicule Aston Martin for their old, underpowered, crappy vehicles and constant cries for moar, they might be the wisest of the bunch. Do not bother at all, just do the mere minimum to show up. And everything will be served to you even to the state of being the most succesful GT in statics. Porsche is not quite to that level, but has edged much closer to that in time. So maybe they are getting wiser too. Rulemakers certainly aren't!

Oh well. We can always remember the good days of 997 vs 430 and earlier.

From what I hear, the Ford GT got some serious waivers.

Spyderman · 24 Nov 2015, 06:40 (Ref:3592913)

Some news on the 2016 cars: I have it from a good source that the 488 will be about 2.5 seconds quicker than the current 458. There is however quite a bit of turbo lag, but that just means the drivers will adapt their driving styles.
The rumor is that the new Ford GT is a monster (barring BOP).
(Both news items are from the same source)

It seems Porsche has their work cutout for them.

Deleted · 24 Nov 2015, 10:09 (Ref:3592958)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

From what I hear, the Ford GT got some serious waivers.

Superb...

bentley speed 8 · 24 Nov 2015, 10:10 (Ref:3592959)

Any idea about the power output of the new cars?

Brake dust · 24 Nov 2015, 12:51 (Ref:3592986)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The "untouchable" status of the 911 also apparently killed off the bespoke mid-engine car, which I'm sure , would have been a far better option (for racing) as it could have had a platform designed specifically for it's engine placement, rather than a modified MMB platform.

Believe you are right Spyderman. What a huge disappointment - and I'm a big Porsche fan! Should race the 911 platform in Cup Series. Looks like we won't be seeing the 960.

Ferrari is head and shoulders above the rest. The 458 is the best car currently and they are leaving it behind for something even better!!

Coach Ep · 24 Nov 2015, 16:28 (Ref:3593025)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

From what I hear, the Ford GT got some serious waivers.

More specific please?

Spyderman · 24 Nov 2015, 17:06 (Ref:3593030)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

More specific please?

No specifics but this: Nov 23
Nick Holland Retweeted Sportscar365
Given what Ford have got away with, I'm looking for a re-imagined 935 turbo with testing of Mission E tec

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Old Porsche 911 rallycross car value	Cromwell	Rallying & Rallycross	26	16 Oct 2015 05:51
TRG Confirms AMR GTE Program	Beetle	Sportscar & GT Racing	92	27 Jun 2013 05:04
New Porsche 911 Rally car	tyrrellf1	Rallying & Rallycross	7	8 Sep 2004 19:32
Porsche 911 RSR a brick?	Liz	Sportscar & GT Racing	26	12 Mar 2004 10:40
Porsche 911 GT3 RSR for British GT!	SALEEN S7R	Sportscar & GT Racing	5	17 Dec 2003 15:01