2014 NASCAR Whelen Euro Series...

[FAS33]

want to watch Nascars on Road Tracks for most of the season? this is it. Ander Vilarino looks to take the series out for the 2nd time, and Josh Burdon still leading the Open Championship.

main website: http://www.euro-racecar.com/en/

[JHamilton]

Unfortunately, I only see one problem here:

"Exhaust line with silencers (95 db)"

The best part of Nascar at a road course is a pushrod V8 with open headers. Fortunately, we don't have many noise restrictions here. In fact, although there are no laws governing it, the de facto maximum for aftermarket exhaust on street cars is 95 db at 100ft.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Unfortunately, I only see one problem here:

"Exhaust line with silencers (95 db)"

My first comment when they came out for their first practice session at Brands Hatch was "these things are too quiet". Demonstrations of "real" NASCARs on the Sunday of that meeting gave those who've never been fortunate enough to visit a NASCAR race an idea of how they should sound.

[FAS33]

Ander Vilarino is the Elite Champion once again.

Anthony Gandon the Open Champion.

[R.Lee]

Odd that Tours is the only oval in this series' schedule, as NASCAR racing is primarly oval based racing! The first time I saw a photo of this track, I thought I was looking at the legendary Bowman-Gray Stadium! Amazing the resemblance! I do not understand why they don't use the big speedways in Rockingham, England and Lausitz, Germany.

[LateModel24]

From what I understand there are two issues:

1. the tracks need to be FIA spec.
2. NASCAR touring series rules.

Most of the ovals in Europe, and those we use for the late models such as Ipswich, Warneton and Venray are not FIA certified. Tours is a car park with a few temporary barriers added which is FIA certified hence they can use that.

The bigger ovals are stopped because, from what I've been told, NASCAR regional series cannot use anything bigger than 1.1 miles.

Maybe someone should buy Mallory and turn it into a true oval...


Edit: Yes, NASCAR is a predominantly oval series however "professional" racing in Europe is road course based. "Real" drivers don't like driving round in a circle.

[FIRE]

Are you sure about Venray?

[LateModel24]

Not 100% sure, no. I am not aware of them applying for FIA certification for either oval; nor has anyone at the circuit mentioned it or advertised it.

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by LateModel24

From what I understand there are two issues:

1. the tracks need to be FIA spec.
2. NASCAR touring series rules.

Most of the ovals in Europe, and those we use for the late models such as Ipswich, Warneton and Venray are not FIA certified. Tours is a car park with a few temporary barriers added which is FIA certified hence they can use that.

Interesting, since the majority of the tracks that the regional NASCAR series, here in the U.S. run on are not FIA spec or approved and FIA spec/approval is not required here for the use of these tracks.

Originally Posted by LateModel24

The bigger ovals are stopped because, from what I've been told, NASCAR regional series cannot use anything bigger than 1.1 miles.

Maybe someone should buy Mallory and turn it into a true oval...

Perhaps that is the reason that Rockingham and Lausitz are not used. However, I saw, somewhere today, don't remember where, that there are talks about running Rockingham in the future. Time will tell, I guess.

Originally Posted by LateModel24

Edit: Yes, NASCAR is a predominantly oval series however "professional" racing in Europe is road course based. "Real" drivers don't like driving round in a circle.

Oh yeah, I forgot -- "Real" drivers. I guess that is why the "Real" drivers, f-1, indy, etc., have done SO WELL and have so throughly dominated the Sprint Cup Series in their forrays into Sprint Cup Races.

[LateModel24]

NASCAR doesn't need FIA circuits because it seems everyone in the US just about ignores the FIA anyway.

The Euro series is an FIA-certified International series and that brings some of this baggage with it.

I've heard the Rockingham rumours and several variations:
- big oval
- one of the road layouts
- oval with chicanes (argh!!)
and so on.

You need to understand how peoples minds work in Europe: road courses mean turning left and right; ovals mean turning left. Well, that's only 50% of the road course so must be easier....

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by LateModel24

NASCAR doesn't need FIA circuits because it seems everyone in the US just about ignores the FIA anyway.

Yes, we pretty much do and we do fine without them, probably allot better that if we didn't ignore them!

Originally Posted by LateModel24

The Euro series is an FIA-certified International series and that brings some of this baggage with it.

Yes, I would imagine so!

Originally Posted by LateModel24

I've heard the Rockingham rumours and several variations:
- big oval
- one of the road layouts
- oval with chicanes (argh!!)
and so on.

Hopefully, if they ever run there, it will be on the oval. Yes, it's a bit bigger than the 1.1 mile, but being flat, they won't build up as much speed as they would if it were banked like most of the ovals here. Speeds should not be that much greater and I imagine they would put on a pretty good race there.

Originally Posted by LateModel24

You need to understand how peoples minds work in Europe: road courses mean turning left and right; ovals mean turning left. Well, that's only 50% of the road course so must be easier....

That, my friend, I will not ever try to say that I understand! I don't say that in any derogatory manner, I simply mean that it seems that on practically everything, the European mind and the U.S. mind are diometrically opposed. VERY difficult to understand, when people are so opposite, in their ways of thinking. They think ovals as so much easier, just shows you that they really don't have a clue!

[LateModel24]

Originally Posted by R.Lee

That, my friend, I will not ever try to say that I understand! I don't say that in any derogatory manner, I simply mean that it seems that on practically everything, the European mind and the U.S. mind are diometrically opposed. VERY difficult to understand, when people are so opposite, in their ways of thinking. They think ovals as so much easier, just shows you that they really don't have a clue!

And that is why I think it will be hard to get a European into NASCAR as anything other than a road course ringer. We have a very different attitude to racing over here. Short oval racing is just seen as Bangers. When I first went to the short ovals a couple of years ago I got funny looks from the long circuit paddock when I was back there. Even explaining that it was costing the same to race a 400HP late model as a 90HP formula car still got funny looks.

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by LateModel24

And that is why I think it will be hard to get a European into NASCAR as anything other than a road course ringer. We have a very different attitude to racing over here. Short oval racing is just seen as Bangers. When I first went to the short ovals a couple of years ago I got funny looks from the long circuit paddock when I was back there. Even explaining that it was costing the same to race a 400HP late model as a 90HP formula car still got funny looks.

Well, if that be the case, that there are drivers there, that genuinely want to get into NASCAR and are being held back, due to the attitude over there, that it takes no skill to drive an oval, it is a real shame! As I said, they don't have a clue as to how difficult oval racing is, what goes into it and their perception of costs, like your example points out!

LateModel24, here is what I would like to see, both from a rather selfish point of view, but in light of your statements, a possible way to help some of these drivers if they want to try to get into NASCAR.

We have a long off-season here. Racing ends in Nov and does not start back until Feb. Four months does not sound like a long time, but when you are use to seeing racing, at some level, Sprint Cup, Nationwide, Camping World Trucks, K&N East, etc., You have a pretty sizeable void. Now I am a big fan of American football, college level football, but I have lost much of the interest that I once had in the NFL. I do not like basketball, so with college football winding down, just the bowl games left really, There is a very long, boring gap for me between the end of the season, at Homestead and the beginning of the coming season, at Daytona. There needs to be something, for racing fans, to fill that void.

In the early to mid 90s, NASCAR had the answer. On the old "The Nashville Network" (TNN), a racing series, called "Winter Heat" was run! It was a non-points series, in that it took place between seasons and it's results did not have any bearing on the upcoming season, for any of the teams, from any of the series that participated.

The first season, the different West coast series, the old Winston Cup West Series, the old All-Pro West Series, (now K&N West) and the new, in it's debute race, NASCAR Craftsman Truck (now Camping World) Series were used. All-Pro East (K&N East, now) Winston Cup, and Busch Grand National (Nationwide Series) drivers/teams could enter the races that match their series rules. It ran for around 6 weeks and did an outstanding job of filling the void between the end of last and beginning of the coming seasons.

The second year, ESPN took it over and the races, with the exception of the first race, which was an All-Pro West race, were from the local/regional (now NASCAR Home Track) series. I did not like the format quite as well, but again, the void was filled and we received a respite from the between seasons void. All of the races, both years, were run at the short track in Tucson, AZ. After the second season, Winter Heat was discontinued and has not been rescheduled since.

My idea is to bring back the NASCAR Winter Heat Series. In most of the areas of the U.S. winter is not suitable for racing, due to cold, ice, snow, etc. But, there are a couple of areas in the country, where that is not the case, the afore mentioned Arizona, around Tuson and Phoenix, also the Southern portion of Florida have tempertures and weather that are suitable for racing, year round. What I would like to see (I won't say propose, because, unfortunately, I know my idea has zero chance of ever seeing light) would be a racing series, using the following series, NASCAR K&N East and West Series, NASCAR Canadian Tire Series, NASCAR Toyota Mexican Series and NASCAR Whelen Euro Series. The five series have similar cars and rules, little would have to be done for series compatibility. Have the races at short tracks in Arizona and the final race at Phoenix International Raceway. Run the first race, the last week in Nov, run three races in Dec, take the week that Christmas fall in off, start back the first week after New Year run two races, then the final, at PIR, the last week of Jan. This would give the fans something to watch during the period between the two seasons. It would be greatly welcomed!

Since, as you point out, there is only a single oval on the Euro Series schedule, any driver in this series, that hopes to one day race in the U.S. will be sadly DEFICENT in the experience that he/she need the MOST, OVAL experience! This series would allow the Euro Series teams and drivers to come to the U.S. and compete on ovals, which they will HAVE TO gain proficiency on, if they ever hope to run in the different NASCAR series here in the U.S.. The Winter Heat series that ran for two years, allowed several current Sprint Cup stars to be discovered, the top NASCAR team owners scout the two K&N Series and to a lesser degree, the Canadian Tire Series. This would give the Euro Series and the Mexican Series drivers more of a chance to display their talents and skills to the top NASCAR Series owners. I would see this as a win, win for both the fans and the 5 different series drivers and teams. Your thoughts?

[andy97]

Originally Posted by LateModel24

Maybe someone should buy Mallory and turn it into a true oval...

Well, the lease for Mallory has been bought by "Real Motorsport Ltd" http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...r+Mallory+Park

As most series in the UK have now got their calendars most of the way sorted, and Mallory will not feature due to the recent problems and the lateness of this deal, they will be looking for content in 2014. Maybe someone should contact the new operators with a view to running some oval races there (and yes I know about the hump, but maybe now is the time to look at sorting that out).

As an aside I have often thought that you could develop a short oval out of the Melbourne loop at Donington, as part of the first loop at Anglesey (inc "the Banking" first corner) and there was talk some time ago of developing part of the Stowe circuit at Silverstone in to an Oval.

[LateModel24]

In Europe, we don't really have professional oval racing. Then, when we have a series like the Whelan NASCAR Euro Series, we run into big problems around sanctioning bodies. Long circuit motorsport in Europe is all run under the control of the FIA and it's national governing bodies. Short track oval racing is all run by individual promoters: Spedeworth, CAMSO, etc. The FIA gets very upset when people decide to go racing on non-approved circuits. There is no benefit for a short oval to get FIA approval; they don't need it.

As for Tours "speedway", it's a temporary oval certified to FIA specification which means those temporary barriers and no concrete wall. Other than Tours, Rockingham and Lausitz are FIA certified but too big for a NASCAR touring series.

I wonder if there is any way that the Euro Series can drop it's FIA International status and have more freedom to run short ovals?

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by LateModel24

In Europe, we don't really have professional oval racing. Then, when we have a series like the Whelan NASCAR Euro Series, we run into big problems around sanctioning bodies. Long circuit motorsport in Europe is all run under the control of the FIA and it's national governing bodies. Short track oval racing is all run by individual promoters: Spedeworth, CAMSO, etc. The FIA gets very upset when people decide to go racing on non-approved circuits. There is no benefit for a short oval to get FIA approval; they don't need it.

As for Tours "speedway", it's a temporary oval certified to FIA specification which means those temporary barriers and no concrete wall. Other than Tours, Rockingham and Lausitz are FIA certified but too big for a NASCAR touring series.

I wonder if there is any way that the Euro Series can drop it's FIA International status and have more freedom to run short ovals?

You know, LateModel24, back in the mid to late 40s, right after then end of World War II, numerous small tracks sprung up all around the Southern United States. Several loosly organized groups sanctioned different races on these small ovals. Many of the drivers that competed at these tracks were drivers that the night before had delievered illegal "moonshine" from the Hills of North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia and North Georgia. There was a potential for organization and along about 1947 or so, a group, headed by a gentleman, named William H.G. (Big Bill) France, met, in a Hotel in Daytona Beach, Florida. That day, NASCAR was formed. It sounds like you are at that same place now, with regards to the small ovels, that we were here, back in 47. Perhaps you need a "Big Bill" France, to step forward, take the reigns and do the same there, with regards to organizing the independent promoters and small ovals. So what if the FIA gets upset, they can't do anything to stop someone that would do this, I don't believce. NASCAR use to fool with the FIA, through it's represenative ACCUS, here in the U.S., but it got in the way, more than anything else and NASCAR finally just ignored them and/or told them to "Take a hike". As you know, NASCAR has done quite well, without FIA interference. I don't know if ACCUS still exists, but all they did was got in the way. They got no respect and we commonly fefered to them as JACCUS! Non FIA tracks can be just as safe as FIA tracks, if the owners/operators are willing to spend the money to make the tracks safe. I'm guessing that someone could organize those independent ovals into a group, offer the group of tracks to NASCAR to run the Euro Series on and you'd have quite a good series of races each year. You wouldn't be up to the task, would you?

[chunder]

To be perfactly honest most sjort ovals in the UK wouldnt be interested in running a series like this.

No one would be interested in watching it, as they werent really interested in ASCAR and late models.

I can understand them runnng on normal tracks but they would be effectivly running as outlaws on ORCi tracks, and getting them a date would be difficult.

A track like Brafield or Birmigham would be too small, Wimbledon is on its last klegs and very unsafe.

You might be able to run somewhere like Venray, but thats where Late Models ran and didnt do a rgeat deal sadly.

We just aint Americans, and the only way any kind of non contact stock car series would ever even have a chance at working (and a slim one at that) would be to get trucks or Nationwide, or heaven forbid Spring cars over.

And that aint happening, just as it hasnt happened anywhere else in the world, coz y see, the Yanks are too easily pleased and we need a little mroe than that Im afraid!

[PabloTeK]

Originally Posted by R.Lee

You know, LateModel24, back in the mid to late 40s, right after then end of World War II, numerous small tracks sprung up all around the Southern United States. Several loosly organized groups sanctioned different races on these small ovals. Many of the drivers that competed at these tracks were drivers that the night before had delievered illegal "moonshine" from the Hills of North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia and North Georgia. There was a potential for organization and along about 1947 or so, a group, headed by a gentleman, named William H.G. (Big Bill) France, met, in a Hotel in Daytona Beach, Florida. That day, NASCAR was formed. It sounds like you are at that same place now, with regards to the small ovels, that we were here, back in 47. Perhaps you need a "Big Bill" France, to step forward, take the reigns and do the same there, with regards to organizing the independent promoters and small ovals. So what if the FIA gets upset, they can't do anything to stop someone that would do this, I don't believce. NASCAR use to fool with the FIA, through it's represenative ACCUS, here in the U.S., but it got in the way, more than anything else and NASCAR finally just ignored them and/or told them to "Take a hike". As you know, NASCAR has done quite well, without FIA interference. I don't know if ACCUS still exists, but all they did was got in the way. They got no respect and we commonly fefered to them as JACCUS! Non FIA tracks can be just as safe as FIA tracks, if the owners/operators are willing to spend the money to make the tracks safe. I'm guessing that someone could organize those independent ovals into a group, offer the group of tracks to NASCAR to run the Euro Series on and you'd have quite a good series of races each year. You wouldn't be up to the task, would you?

The ACCUS still exist, and apparently NASCAR is a member. Bit of a strange one the ACCUS as while it's the ASN for the US, it's not an actual sanctioning body in the sense of the MSA or CAMS etc.

I'm actually interested in the differences of the safety features between say a Cup car and something like an LMP car. The only reason for choosing LMP is that the car speeds are similar (i.e. 200+ mph) and they're both car-ish...

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by chunder

To be perfactly honest most sjort ovals in the UK wouldnt be interested in running a series like this.

No one would be interested in watching it, as they werent really interested in ASCAR and late models.

I can understand them runnng on normal tracks but they would be effectivly running as outlaws on ORCi tracks, and getting them a date would be difficult.

A track like Brafield or Birmigham would be too small, Wimbledon is on its last klegs and very unsafe.

You might be able to run somewhere like Venray, but thats where Late Models ran and didnt do a rgeat deal sadly.

We just aint Americans, and the only way any kind of non contact stock car series would ever even have a chance at working (and a slim one at that) would be to get trucks or Nationwide, or heaven forbid Spring cars over.

And that aint happening, just as it hasnt happened anywhere else in the world, coz y see, the Yanks are too easily pleased and we need a little mroe than that Im afraid!

You seem to say that like someone that really does not want it to have a chance to succeed, like maybe you are afraid that it could or would succeed. It the late 40s, there was a fanbase of a particular form of racing here in the U.S., that said the same thing about stock car racing and especially about the newly founded, at that time, NASCAR. They claimed that there was no interest in stock cars and in this new formed NASCAR sanctioning body for stock car racing. They said that there was no way that it would catch on, no way that it would succeed. Not only did they say that, as it grew and grew, they more openly voiced their displeasure that it was succeeding and their desire for it not to succeed. They took it to great lengths to express their hopes that it wouldn't succeed. In what can only be labled poetic justice, NASCAR not only succeeded, but did so, so much to the point that it knocked their form of racing off of the "top of the hill" of American auto racing! I'm not saying that you hold their views or are like them, just saying that some of what you have said sounds exactly like what they were saying. I've never understood that view, since the U.S. is a big country and there is plenty of room and plenty of people for there to be room for the success of multiple form of auto racing, without the need to look down on, bash one or another form different from what one may enjoy and wish another form to not be successful. Likewise, I would think that the same sitution exists there and in the rest of the world. I should think that the view of every fan of auto racing, SHOULD be, I like and watch what I like and anyone else should be allowed to do the same thing. It's a simple concept, really. Just enjoy what you enjoy and let others enjoy what they enjoy.

I don't think you really have to worry about NASCAR sending the Sprint Cup, Nationwide or Camping World Series there. NASCAR is really not interested in expanding, much beyond the borders of the U.S. Aside from maybe a race on the U.S.-Canada border, which would serve the U.S. market as much as the Canadian market, they have little interest. Yes, they did a couple of exibition races in Australia and in Japan, a few years ago, but those were not expansions into those countries, just exibitions. There was a spin-off in Australia, a local NASCAR style series, AUSCAR and for a short time, as NASCAR Sprint Cup Style series. They did not last, but there is more to the story than meets eye. I have friends there and they said that the two were doing quite well, building popularity, but that the two series were ultimately killed off by the then head of what morphed into the V8 Supercar Series, with a WHOLE LOT of backing from a little anal JERK named bernie! Otherwise, they believe the series would have continued to grow and would have ultimately been a huge success.

What many forget or don't understand is that the Euro Series is one of the five regional touring series, that are development series for the three above mentioned, top series of NASCAR. The Canadian Tire, Toyoda Mexican and Whelen Euro Series are not so much international expansion efforts, by NASCAR into their respective countries/continents, but instead set up more to find and develop new talent for the three top NASCAR series! If there were not an interest in stock cars, even if it is a minor interest, compaired to other forms of racing there, NASCAR would not have a series there. My question is, is it really a lack of interest there or is it more the fear of some, that interest does exist and that they are afraid that, that interest might be uncovered/discovered, nourished and developed. The same situation that occured in Australia, according to my friends there, where the interest was killed off!

Too easily pleased? How so? I really do not get the point you are trying make with that statement.

Also, you say that the tracks at Brafield or Birmigham are too small, what are their lengths (please give in statute mile mesurement, not metric, as I want to compare them to a couple of tracks here in the U.S.) Are they smaller than Bowman Gray Stadium (1/4 mile in length) and Islip Speedway (.2 miles), in New York, Each of these tracks, and numerous others around the country were and/or are still used for stock car racing, by NASCAR and other series. Bowman Gray and Islip were used by the old NASCAR Grand National Division, (today, the Sprint Cup Series) back when they ran the old 1st and 2nd generation cars. Those cars were MUCH larger than the cars that are raced in the Sprint Cup Series, today!

Understand, I am not attacking you, I am just pointing out that what you said -- "No one would be interested here", "...aint happening, just as it hasnt happened anywhere else in the world", etc., I have heard allot of people, that did not/do not want stock car racing and especially NASCAR to succeed. Thank you, in advance for any reply answer to the questions I ask above.

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by PabloTeK

The ACCUS still exist, and apparently NASCAR is a member. Bit of a strange one the ACCUS as while it's the ASN for the US, it's not an actual sanctioning body in the sense of the MSA or CAMS etc.

Yes, JACCUS still exists and I believe NASCAR still maintains some form of relationship with them, but they seem to be more of a hinderance than anything else. I don't believe they are bothered by or with them very much. I believe NASCAR does FAR BETTER without them, that with them!

Originally Posted by PabloTeK

I'm actually interested in the differences of the safety features between say a Cup car and something like an LMP car. The only reason for choosing LMP is that the car speeds are similar (i.e. 200+ mph) and they're both car-ish...

About the best thing I could suggest to find out, might be to contact NASCAR and inquire about the safety of the Generation 6 Car and contact whatever sanctioning body, series that controls LMP racing and make similar inquires, then compare the two. I don't see any why both should not agree to provide the requested information.

[chunder]

Mr Lee

I understand your point, but you are in the US, where this kind of racing has its origins!

We are, how can I put it, not quite as large a country and maybe a little more sophisticated in our tastes historically.

We do have a very well supported short oval scene in the UK, but it is largely split into non and full contact. Something you guys dont really do any of, (other than those awful Destruction derby things, you could do so much better). And it is also not recognised by our moronic governing body the RACMSA who just turn a blind eye to formula that have more drivers in them than three quarters of all the tin pot car racing formulae on 'proper' circuits do put together. It is almost a pirate show!! The cars are safe, the tracks are well looked after and safe.

So, the short tracks already exist, their fixtures lists are pretty full already, so as a promoter you are not going to risk dropping dates for something like this that no-one really has an interest in. Unless you can guaranteee a crowd, and that crowd only comes with names.

It has been tried already, when Rockingham was built they bought over a load of ASA cars, got some real good guys to drive them, tv deal etc and it utterly bombed! Because Europeans aren't interested in oval racing, in Germany too DTM got bigger crowds than ASCAR did, and their oval is a white elephant as Rockingham is.

You don't have a Nurburgring, your biggest track has 4 corners! Says it all about the differences between us in our tastes I am afraid, You go wild about the corkscrew! Have any of you guys see the Karussell or Flugplatz! Jeez.

Being serious, it is a question of taste, Europeans might go and watch a proper NASCAR full meeting in Germany or the UK, but some smaller formula would only get as much interest as bombers or regional late models perhaps. We just aren't interested.

It is not fear at all, honestly. Some of us would love it, but we don't have the infrastructure, interest or desire to take up large scale oval racing, not when those that do can hop on a plane and watch it there. That is where the US started 60 odd years ago, in Europe we had been racing cars for 100 years before that! On roads, circuits, Brooklands was closed before you guys got serious!!! lol

Its simply a cultural thing, nothing else.

[Starfish Primer]

Tours oval is going to be permanent.

This series are really entertaining and the cars are very cheap to run. I recommend everybody to go to the track to watch one of their races.

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

Tours oval is going to be permanent.

This series are really entertaining and the cars are very cheap to run. I recommend everybody to go to the track to watch one of their races.

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by chunder

Its simply a cultural thing, nothing else.

Perhaps this single statement explains it, better than anything else. You might want to check your history though. There was auto racing in the U.S. over 100 years ago. Anyway, thanks for clairfying that.

[Bob Riebe]

This thread concerning the differences is totally ignoring-- the simple fact -- the absolute differences in racing history between this side of the pond and over there.
In U.S. there were dozens of makes,= pre-WW II and right after WW II still over one-half dozen makes, who were racing stocks cars in regional ( what NASCAR is now only came about in less than the past twenty years) series or singular races across the country hundreds of time a month or even weekly at times.
What exists now is a shadow of what once was and really is really a third or fourth cousin to what existed pretty much through the eighties in the U.S..

The closest item in the U.K. was Jaguar and Rover maybe Mercedes in sedan road races.

Had there been Jaguars, Rolls Royces, Bentleys, Mercedes, Rover, Maserati etc. sedans running out on the ovals that still existed in the U.K. and Europe, then maybe persons over there would have been interested while cheering for their favorite make but that did not happen; therefore because the U.S. had major series involving sports cars, sedans (road and oval) and multiple types of open wheel cars-- people here have or at least had especially when weekly racing newspapers flourished-- a good idea of what was going on in all aspects, multiple types open wheel, mutliple types sports and two forms of sedans, while people on that side of the pond were mostly in the dark beyond F-1, and road racing .