What would you like to see at a historic festival?

[Derwent Motorsp]

Thinking back to the Coys Festivals at Silverstone, I think there was a much better mix of racing than there is at most meetings now. It may be that we have too many historic festivals (virtually every circuit has one) and there are not enough "interesting" cars/races to go round now. Quite a lot of meetings are now double headers with most races repeated on the Sunday. Thus there is less need to go both days - Saturday is best as the Sunday grids are often depleted with retirements.
Also the more modern F1 cars, and the Group C cars do seem to often have sparse grids and a high retirment rate, no doubt due to their greater complexity.
I seem to remember one of the HSCC run Silverstone Classics where there were lots of races for sixties single seaters - F1/F3/FJ/FF and my wife said that all the cars looked the same- which is reasonably true unless you are a real enthusiast. Not too inspiring for the spectator.
My ideal meeting would be: 1) Pre war single seaters; 2) prewar sports cars; 3) pre 60 single seaters; 4) pre 60 sports racers; 5) pre 70 GT, sports & LM cars; 6) CanAm/Orwell sports 7) pre 60 saloons; 8) pre 66 FIA App K sports cars. The last mainly so I can have a race!

[zefarelly]

a good eclectic mix of period correct type and prepared cars would be a good start, a little bit of everything

[Al Weyman]

Mainly again assuming the motorsport world stopped in 1966 again with those choices, just what is wrong with later cars.

[simon drabble]

Al I think you have read his post selectively... a common fault on this board. Derwent says he wants Can/Am and pre 70. Short of Group C what has he missed?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

My ideal meeting would be: 1) Pre war single seaters; 2) prewar sports cars; 3) pre 60 single seaters; 4) pre 60 sports racers; 5) pre 70 GT, sports & LM cars; 6) CanAm/Orwell sports 7) pre 60 saloons; 8) pre 66 FIA App K sports cars. The last mainly so I can have a race!

Following on from DMs initial proposal I would go for:

1) Pre-war Single Seaters; 2) Pre-1960 Single Seaters; 3) Pre-1960s Sports Racers; 4) Can-Am; 5) Derek Bell Series; 6) Pre-1972(?) FF1600; 7) Formula Junior; 8) Saloon cars (probably prefer cars from the 1970s); 9) 2 Litre Sports racers (again 1970s)

Assuming a 3 day meeting like the Classic I would also like to see for some of the races (e.g. FF1600) two heats and a final!

[zefarelly]

I want to see escorts leaving camaros squirming in the gravel as much as the next man the sooner we get a 66-70 tin top series the better, the next bits already happening . . . and has been for some time

a period correct grid split/make up might have been a slightly better way of putting it from one perspective

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I want to see escorts leaving camaros squirming in the gravel as much as the next man the sooner we get a 66-70 tin top series the better, the next bits already happening . . . and has been for some time

a period correct grid split/make up might have been a slightly better way of putting it from one perspective

There you go again,talking about Escorts,I dont recall see-ing any warts on your wife Zef.

[john ruston]

HGPDA usually merge Pre War single seaters with post war to 1960 and I think this necessary to make full grid as Old Banger single seat racing seems to be less popular these days.Fast Cooper Bristols may have had something to do with it.

A Festival needs to cover period to 1978,more than 30 years old and a mixture.It's a pointless discussion on here to ask which races as its been kicked around so many times before and with no agreement as long as there are the individuals pet class included.

The only more annoying thing to discuss is where and who should run it.I don't care as long as Grahame White is in charge.

[zefarelly]

I say old bean, thats a bit strong isn't it

Originally Posted by john ruston

It's a pointless discussion on here to ask which races as its been kicked around so many times before and with no agreement as long as there are the individuals pet class included.

[terence]

[Quote:JohnRuston]


[ no agreement as long as there are the individuals pet class included.]

The only more annoying thing to discuss is where and who should run it.I don't care as long as Grahame White is in charge.[/quote]

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Al I think you have read his post selectively... a common fault on this board. Derwent says he wants Can/Am and pre 70. Short of Group C what has he missed?

He said

pre 70 GT, sports & LM cars;

not saloons! And Zef come to a CTRC PHTC meeting and you will get your wish seeing Escorts beat Camaros, well sometimes not always!

[john ruston]

Sports Cars to 1950 inc Pre War
Single Seaters to 1960 inc Pre War
Sports cars and GT to 1963
Single Seaters to 1968
Sports Cars and prototypes to 1970
Saloons to 66
Saloons to 75
2 Litre Sports Cars to 1968
FJ to 63
FI from 69 to 75
Le Mans cars to 78

Does that stack up.Full Grids and workable groupings.

Invitation only and by Committee.

[big andy]

special saloons , modsports , supersaloons , thundersaloons
special saloons , modsports , supersaloons , thundersaloons
special saloons , modsports , supersaloons , thundersaloons
special saloons , modsports , supersaloons , thundersaloons
special saloons , modsports , supersaloons , thundersaloons

[john ruston]

So have another Festival for Club cars at Brands Indy circuit.Thats where these club cars were thought up by John Webb. The other festivals can be for International Classes

[chunder]

Promoters not charging insane prices for entrance fees

It's that simple for me, the crowds for these events have never been big since Coys and despite Silverstone flogging the promotion rights to many, they ahve never captured that popularity.

The drivers are largely well off, so why are punters paying 40 odd quid a ticket for this kind of meeting?

[dikko]

Historic Formula Fords should be in every Historic event just to add excitement to the proceedings - but there - I could be a little biased.

[john ruston]

FF is really a club formula and whats the wealth of the drivers/entrants got to be charged with 40 Pounds for weekend.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by john ruston

FF is really a club formula and whats the wealth of the drivers/entrants got to be charged with 40 Pounds for weekend.

I think he's insinuating that the wealthy drivers should be subsidising the poor punter's entrance fee.

If it's £40 then I'm pretty sure that's not much more than it was in 1994 when we went to the Coys festival.

[terence]

I remember it being in that bracket Tim,in fact I think that say,£50 for a family of four would be more in line for the weekend.When you take in the ground rent for burger bars/stall's and so on,I would have thought the circuit should be happy to hopefully get a larger gate than last year.More speccy's in then gives the stall holders more of a chance to get their rent back.I also remember FF being the time when everyone went to get a cup of coffee because in those days you where guaranteed a red flag.

[simon drabble]

in the context of eventing, meetings at Thruxton etc and other speccy sports £40 is pretty good value. Bear in mind that if teh entry is free it does little to encourage decent stall holders - if they know that punters have paid they will be more comfortable that they will sppend. That makes for an all round better infield. Its the policy they use at Goodwood and it works.

[Al Weyman]

Then again if they hav'nt paid so much to get in they would have more to spend on burgers etc.

[Eric Falce]

Goodwood policy is a law unto itself by any standards.
Back on thread a bit,What would I like to see, ME plus my friend from Portland in his Lotus nine,Cam Ams with no noise restrictions,Cobras etc the big boys in general,low gate fees if not free with promotions inside for the wife and kids(not mine),see if we cant fill the grandstands any way possible.

[simon drabble]

whilst I agree it is good to see full grandstands it is hollow if they are all there for free. If you want punters to potentially spend money with the automobilia stands you need paying punters. If you just have freebies it will all be burger vans which is not adding any visual value to the infield.
At last year's Classic I spent as much time wandering around the stalls as I did watching the racing. The harsh reality is that in most cases races are dull to watch unless there are lots of video screens to see whats going on on the rest of the track and so long as they are relatively close.
Although I am not advocating trying to copy Goodwood, promoters should take on board why Goodwood works so well.... well chosen races providing good viewing and attention to detail. That is why JR is right when he says it shoudl be invitation only and a committee to select.

[John Turner]

I'm not sure the racing could be described as boring Simon, especially if it is close, because the cars themselves interest me, as well. The sheer sight and sound of them contributes greatly to my enjoyment. I would think that most spectators coming to a meeting such as the Classic would share that view or maybe I'm just an anorak. I agree that more viewing screens would improve matters; in fact one at Abbey would be good obscuring all those camper vans with their aerials and dishes, which completely clutter up the eyeline there!

[simon drabble]

if its close John I agree but in reality any race longer than about 8-10 laps is difficult to follow as a speccy in a grandstand (especially when pitstops are concerned). As a competitor I love long disctance races but at a Festival I think only a feature race should be 1 hour. Goodwood get it right with a 1 hour on Sunday and this year with the evening race. Screens and audible commentary are the key. Did they have those portable things that the GP have?