Traction control rears it's ugly head again

[White Van Man]

From autosport.com:

Traction control is set to legally return to Formula 1 after a meeting of the F1 Technical
Working Group, the teams’ own think tank, voted unanimously for its re-introduction last
Thursday.

Traction control - which reduces wheelspin by monitoring wheel speed and adjusting
engine power if wheelspin is detected - was banned eight years ago as part of the FIA’s
campaign to reduce the number of electronically-controlled driver-aids at the highest level
of the sport.

However, F1 engineers say that the ban is unworkable and that a number of teams have
been and are still using forms of traction control since the ban was implemented.

The F1 Commission still has to approve the measure at its meeting in Monaco on
December 7th, but a source within the FIA, motorsport’s governing body, says this is little
more than a formality and that the teams’ wishes will be respected.

FIA president Max Mosley is opposed in principle to allowing driver-aids back into F1,
believing that the skill of the driver should not be diluted, but according to the source, he
will go along with the consensus of the teams.

At Thursday’s meeting, a letter from the FIA’s technical delegate Jo Bauer was distributed
to the Technical Working Group. In it, Bauer said he was satisfied that at least one team
had been using traction control in the period up to and including the 1998 season.

This sucks

[Gt_R]

Quoted from F1-live:
After eight years of trying to police traction control, the FIA look set to allow its use in Formula One, from next season...

...McLaren’s technical director, Adrian Newey is in favour of the development, simply because if one team plan on using it illegally, then all teams should have the right to benefit by it. As it can’t be policed adequately enough, allowing it’s use will put an end to wild speculations and cheating allegations as well as giving all 22 cars on the grid the same opportunities.

"I am in favour of such a development," admitted Newey. "I am no great fan of traction control as such, but the fact that you have fuel and ignition systems on any car means that, in my view, if you have the mindset to cheat and use traction control, then the basic tools are in place for you to do so. I think it is a pragmatic and positive thing to do, because races have clearly been won in the past by cars using traction control, and this is an unacceptable situation."



If i want to be cynical, i could say that of course Newey wants the reintroduction of TC. Simply because Mclaren have just lost their electronic whizkid to Ferrari, the man who is responsible for the great "smokeless starts" of the Mclarens this year!

And having TC introduced means Ferrari could not pull the same trick over Mclaren next year~

And if FIA is indeed helping Ferrari, they should not allow TC next year!~

[LYM]

I put in into business perspective and this change will come sooner or later. The giant car companies are coming to F1 and why would they want to invest their money if technological advancements are not relevant to road cars?

Although this has nothing to do with TGF(and Ferrari), but I think it's gonna benefit him more than the McLaren drivers, particularly Hakkinen, in areas like during the startoffs.

[Tris]

PAH!

If TGF whentt straight at the start instead of sideways he would have no problmes!

Seriusly though TC will be good for the teams next year due to the tyre war.... help keep those marginal rear tyres intact!

[wodonnell]

Did we ever find out which team it was that was accused of using TC in 98/99?

[Billy_Hunt]

If i want to be cynical, i could say that of course Newey wants the reintroduction of TC. Simply because Mclaren have just lost their electronic whizkid to Ferrari, the man who is responsible for the great "smokeless starts" of the Mclarens this year!

Could you clarify please GT_R are you saying McLarens used traction control ?
I'd say two false starts are not the indication of a team using traction control but the opposite.
For me traction control can only be a bad thing.
Why do they struggle so much to identify when it is being used ?

If TGF whentt straight at the start instead of sideways he would have no problmes!

never a more true (your killing me !) word said

[Gt_R]

Jump starts have nothing to do with Traction Control. It only shows a driver who misjudges a start.

Well, you have to admit that Mika's start were brilliant, smokeless and fast. While on the warm up lap, Michael always have to smoke his tires to get extra traction. Such smoking of tires is not fully possible with Traction Control. Mclaren hardly smokes their tires, yet they often makes perfect start which suggest very good traction made available to them.

While this does not mean Illegal traction control, the man who is credited with these wonderful starts are heading to Ferrari. With the worry that Ferrari would be having the great starts next year with excellent traction, of course it would make sense for Newey to support the legalisation of TC, thus removing the advantage that Ferrari have in the starts, as everyone would be able to make perfect take-offs.~

Well, all teams said they wanted TC to be legal. Of course, because those that stated that they are against it would be suspected of running illegal aids in the past!

But...this is all from a cynical point view!~

[LYM]

Smokeless grid starts can be due to superior engines, and we all know Mercedes's field of expertise do we? Mika has better starts this year but we see smoke came out from both McLaren cars.

I think Newey knows more than we do. If a team had employed TC or LC for almost the whole season, and got away with it despite being caught red-handed, it would be fairer to legalise the whole damn thing isn't it?

[WilliamsBMWF1]

That great then should help Williams get back to the front agin quicker ,traction contol 92-93 cars were sweet.

[Billy_Hunt]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Jump starts have nothing to do with Traction Control. It only shows a driver who misjudges a start.

True.. what I was trying to get accross was the psych of the driver if they had traction control they could just sit back take it easy and relax knowing they are going to get a better start,well not quite relax but it surely would take a bit of the pressure off at the start.
I think some of the best starts from this year had to be JV.
With the McLarens I think it was more the Ferrari drivers making bad starts than anything.

[Tris]

Ferrari's relativly poor starts were due to the characteristics of the clutch. Ross brawn said so!

[angst]

Another nail in the coffin then. Goodbye World Drivers Championship.

[Tris]

Originally posted by angst
Another nail in the coffin then. Goodbye World Drivers Championship.

Hi angst..

While I agree with your sentiments to some degree I still have to say that historically the best drivers have always been able to extract more out of a given car than an inferior driver; no matter how technically advanced the car is.

If you want to look at an example form the traction control days the obvious example had to be Donnington 1993. Both the Williams drivers had traction control yet look how Senna trounced them.

I am not too against traction control... as long as it spices the racing up. What I do dislike is active ride. That removes a lot of the set-up input from the driver as the car can be optimised for every corner on the tack for any fuel load... there is non-skill in finding a good compromise in the set-up.

[angst]

Tris, my main dislike for any of the driver aids is that the more there are the more input it takes from the driver, the championship is becoming more and more a constructors (soon to be manufacturers) championship. With cars like this expect Kart drivers to be signed up for F1 very soon...
At the moment I believe the cars are too easy to drive, this is yet another nail in the coffin of F1 as the highest echelon of motor racing as a competition for drivers.
If the FIA doesn't act quickly F1 will quickly lose it's credibility (IMO).

[Tris]

Hi angst!

In an ideal world I would love to see ALL driver aids banned. Semi automatic gear boxes, traction control, active ride etc.

The Formula that wee have got at the moment is no way pure. I do not like refuelling and I do not particularly like tyre stops either. Look at how Watson used to win... those were the days...

But the cars we have now are not pure racing cars. They banned ground effect as the cars were getting too fast. I’ll have to check up on the figures to see how much downforce ground effect produced relative the contemporary cars. I think they need to do something about the current regulation now. I personally advocate a ban on all venture, cut the allowed diffuser length by half, limit the number of elements allowed in the rear wing to three, a reduction of engine capacity to 2.5 litre, widening the car by 50cm and a return to late 70’s spec tyres.

The FIA has not been credible for years.... I think it took it first real body blow when Balestre took over.

[angst]

I'm in total agreement Tris. The FIA are looking to block Raikkonen from having a superlicense, which to my mind is falsifying the situation. They need to do something quite drastic if they want F1 to be viewed as the top tier of motorsport (as far as the drivers go) with any credibility.

P.S. Tgf fans - then you would really see the sparks fly from your man, you'd see the talent that has been hidden by these semi-automated abominations called F1 cars.

[Marshal]

Yep, looks like next year could be a fascinating battle between the leading teams software engineers, backed up by slick pit work and clever strategy from the Team managers. Apparently the cars are going have drivers on board too.

Never mind, I'm sure we can get the teams to agree next year that they'd be better off without them. Just think of the money they'd save.

[EERO]

angst, Tris, I gree with you both entirely.

The dillution of the WDC continues. Obviously, the FIA has thrown their hands in the air realizing that they cannot police the teams well enough. But abdication of the responsibility will continue the decline of the SPORT in F1.

The current set of rules fosters the WCC as you both have stated and the quality of the top teams has a disproportionate effect upon the WDC.

[Billy_Hunt]

I still dont really understand why they struggle so much to identify it's use .
The cars always seem to be getting scrutinised
Adrian Newey says".... you have fuel and ignition systems on any car means that - in my view - if you have the mindset to cheat and use traction control, then the basic tools are in place for you to do so,"
What about getting rid of the fuel ignition and going back to the days of carburettors surely they've come along way over the years .
Just a suggestion anything has got to be better than having TC .Next they will have rolling starts lets face it the start's wont be the same once TC comes in .
But it looks like were too late.

[Valve Bounce]

While everyone is decrying the re-introduction of Traction Control, nobody has really come out to say specifically what is wrong with Traction Control. While Angst says that the Driver's championship is "becoming" a Constructor's championship, is this really true? I mean, the WDC hs been between two makes each year for quite a few years already. Put TGF in a Jordan, Williams, BAR or Benneton for the past two years and would he have been anywhere near the WDC. What I want to know is will Trax even out the cars a bit more rather than the drivers? Or will Trax make it even more easy for the top two teams to monopolise the championship. Will Trax bebefit production cars and make them safer under slippery conditions? I look back to Tris's post, and OK, I agree that in an ideal world, going back to manual shifts, carbies, no wings (my idea), no computers on cars, no power steering , no other driver aids, will bring back an era where the best drivers will clearly dominate if they had a decent car. BUT in life there is no going back. No driver will want to finish the Monaco or any other GP with his hand raw and bleeding. No matter whether we side with Don Quixote or not, we will eventually have to accept the inevitable thing called progress!! and the FIA too.

[Tris]

Whilst I am against traction control in principle as it equalised the driver somewhat I have to say that F1 is so dire now that I world even advocate CVT if it enhanced the racing. Traction control helps the driver out and removes one of his / her skills.

Admittedly we probably will not get good racing until they change the tyre regulation, go back to decent tracks etc but if traction control helps the spectacle out I am all for it. Having said that i think that the current regulations are fundamentally flawed and ideally traction control should not be a part of any motorsport.

[Valve Bounce]

I still can't undrstand how Trax would equalise drivers' abilities. Could we argue that a more skillful driver, like TGF, could actually take advantage of Trax and make it benefit his driving even more? OK!! Trax might prevent some drivers from exiting a track in very wet conditions, but would it enable him to corner as fast as the mudlarks like TGF and Alesi? How does Trax even out the drivers? I just don't understand. I cannot blame the FIA for allowing Trax if they cannot control its use. We have argued here that information can be sent to a car's computer during a race, and then for the information to be deleted later on before the end of the race.
F1 cars are the ultimate development of racing cars, albeit within certain confines. Will this philosophy ever change? All many of us want to see is a level playing field for the drivers to compete in, and unfortunately, because some teams are a helluva lot richer than others, this will never happen.
I suppose I am one of those that don't want to see one or two smart teams employ computer wiz's to give them Trax over other cars, and we certainly don't want to see these rumours and finger pointing at certain cars having Trax just because they start better or corner better.
Perhaps some really good technical poster here can explain, in simple terms, how Trax works and then show how that would benefit the lesser drivers more than the really hot shot drivers. I know we have some really knowledgeable guys here, so how about it??

[Tris]

In simple terms...

There are sensors on the rear mounted wheels that are linked to an onboard computer that calculates the speed at which they are turning. The computer compares this calculated figure to the “ideal” speed of the wheel i.e. the rotational speed of the rear wheels should match the linear road speed (the road speed can be calculated by various means.. I'll not go into here.)

If the rear wheels rotational speed is in excess of the calculated road speed the wheels are spinning and then the computer cuts in to reduce the drive to the rear wheels until their rotational speed matches the linear road speed of the car.

At the Pacific GP in 1994 ferrai were caught using a “traction control ” system..

FIA technical director Charlie Whiting noticed as he was standing at trackside that the engine note of Larini’s Ferrari was fluttering. He though this could indicate some for of traction control. He went to see John Tobt, Ferrari’s team manager to tell him to stop running the device that was described by Ferrari as an “adjustable rev limiter“ for the balance of the weekend until it’s legality had been investigated. Larini threw petrol onto the fire when the made comments about turning the traction control off! Patrick Head of Williams was a little dubious about the whole affair; “I rather suspect that if it had been us (Williams) we would have been on our way home now.” (Comment from the morning or the race.) Ferrari was subsequently cleared of any accusations. The official FIA communiqué read as follows “In essence the these devices change the characteristics of the engine according to certain predetermined instructions. The ‘Map’ of the engine, or the permissible throttle opening of the rev limiter may be different in each gear. Alternately the characteristics of the engine may change according to the where abouts of the car on the circuit, or it will be set by the driver. Devices of such kind are not traction control because they are not influenced by the behaviour of the rear wheels.” Most of the team concluded that Ferrari had effectively breached the rules by interfering with the driver’s direct control over the throttle opening and hence the amount of power delivered to the driving wheels. Patrick Head was still sceptical “Traction control is not defined specifically in the regulations so it is my opinion that any means of pre-setting the power levels in this way is intended to have a similar effect.”

There are many forms of “traction control” all work off different principles... The problem is that there is no hard and fast definition of it in the rule book.

This takes away a driver skill as you can just floor the throttle and the computer will adjust the amount of drive to the rear wheels to ensure maximum traction in the given conditions.

[Marshal]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
I still can't undrstand how Trax would equalise drivers' abilities.

The difference becomes apparent when accelerating out of corners, particularly in slippery conditions. Rather than having to feed the throttle in gently, balancing engine power against the grip of the tyres, with Traction Control, all the drivers nail the throtle to the floor and let the software sort it out. I agree other aspects of the drivers skill aren't particularly affected (braking and in corner speed) but it is a significant aspect of the drivers input being taken away.

As for whether this technology can be transfered to road cars, it depends on how the TC is implemented. Back in '93 when it was last run, the most effective way to reduce wheel spin quickly was to reduce engine power quickly. This was done by not firing the spark plug(s) on a number of cylinders. This reduced power but made the cars sound as if they had a dreadful misfire, and as such wasn't considered suitable for road use. Whether more subtle approaches will be used in 2001 I don't know

[Valve Bounce]

OK, I'll accept that any driver can accelerate faster after a corner with Trax. However, the more skillful driver will enter the corner faster, corner faster, and therefore will gain even more with Trax coming out of the corner at a higher speed and flooring the accelerator. How about ABS? Will that be allowed also? Now that would even out between the good and lessor drivers, I suppose. Finally, I have Trax on my Volvo AWD. How does that work, seeing that I also have AWD, and a low speed turbo? I am sure that my Trax bears no relation to the fantastic systems described above. I think I have only known the Trax on my car to work once, and that was when I was accelerating on a patch of ice on the road, but I wasn't sure if that was the Trax or the AWD.
Now that I have moved to Queensland, I suppose both the Trax and the AWD is superfluous.