My DRS Theory

[ECW Dan Selby]

I have a theory in regards to the FIA’s view on DRS:

I think the FIA are keeping the long DRS zones to ensure drivers try to make more DRS passes than normal passes. The reason being, that these DRS passes are much safer, as the defending driver is helpless 9/10 times, and generally allows the DRS car through.

It works two-fold for the FIA. In their view, the crowd leaves happy that there have been some ‘overtakes’, but it also means less wheel to wheel action, meaning less risk.

Am I talking complete rubbish here, or do you think there could be any truth to this?

Selby

[wolfhound]

Some body forgot to tell Kimi judging by some of his overtaking points!

[ECW Dan Selby]

haha Yeh, he did very well.

I just mean this generally speaking, though.

Selby

[ECW Dan Selby]

Case in point:

Spa. And older, dangerous track. Doesn't have as much run-off as the new tracks. Yet apparently, they 'analyse the data' from previous races in regards to the DRS zones.

So tell me why, despite it being incredibly obvious that the entire Kemmel straight is far, far too long to be a DRS zone, have they not altered this in a few years?

To me, they seem to be encouraging drivers (whether they say it outwardly, or not) to make their highway passes instead of risking it up the inside of one of those flowing chicanes.

Selby

[wolfhound]

I don't know why we need DRS zones at Spa. It was always a circuit where you could pass. Next year with more powerful energy recovery will we need DRS at a lot of the circuits?

[andy666]

You have a point , maybe this goes someway to explaining why we seem to have 2 DRS zones at the moment .

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by andy666

You have a point , maybe this goes someway to explaining why we seem to have 2 DRS zones at the moment .

Exactly.

More sanitised/safe passes, the better. And more 'overtaking' = a happy crowd!

Selby

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I don't know why we need DRS zones at Spa. It was always a circuit where you could pass. Next year with more powerful energy recovery will we need DRS at a lot of the circuits?

Honestly, I think 2 DRS zones will become the norm. Don't be surprised if they even introduce a third at a few of the newer venues.

Selby

[andy666]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Honestly, I think 2 DRS zones will become the norm. Don't be surprised if they even introduce a third at a few of the newer venues.

Selby

I thought 2 zones was already the norm , 1 zone I kind of understand but for me 2 is too much . 3, no they wouldn't would they ? Do the crowd really believe they are seeing 'overtakes' ?

[ECW Dan Selby]

I've been a member of F1Fanatic for a long time, and it used to be a place for die-hards. Always had really intelligent discussion.

Over the past year or so, it's definitely inherited a lot of casual fans, and many rate the races extremely high and are very happy with 'all the overtakes!'.

For instance, 2 people there today voted Spa a whopping 9/10. I couldn't help myself - I had to pull them up on it. It's people like that who are crippling the sport slowly.

And it's not a dig at the F1Fanatic owner. You take on as many as you possibly can. But i've checked out the average 'Rate the Race' results over the past year or two, and F1F's is always a higher average than here, which either tells you that:

a) There's more happy casuals on F1F now
or
b) We're a pessimistic bunch!

But in all seriousness, it's not right, is it?

I asked the dude who voted 9/10 (didn't vote it 10/10 because of Raikkonen's retirement, btw) "what on earth did you vote some of the previous races? 20/10?".

I don't mean to come across like a bitter *****, but do you sometimes get the sense that you're fighting a losing battle?

They don't seem to KNOW what we want, but they seem to be teaching a whole new generation of fan what they SHOULD want, and that scares me quite a bit.

Selby

[andy666]

9/10 , I am going to have to re-watch the race , I must have missed something ! Did he reply to your question ? Easily pleased casual fans and yes i find it worrying aswell .

[ECW Dan Selby]

No responses just yet. I'm keeping a watchful eye.

Last time I questioned someone, many jumped on me for being disrespectful and 'bullying' the guy. Last time I checked, it was a 'discussion forum'.

There's being needlessly negative, then there's wanting answers and debating. It's two very different things.

Selby

[karting]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I've been a member of F1Fanatic for a long time, and it used to be a place for die-hards. Always had really intelligent discussion.

Over the past year or so, it's definitely inherited a lot of casual fans, and many rate the races extremely high and are very happy with 'all the overtakes!'.

For instance, 2 people there today voted Spa a whopping 9/10. I couldn't help myself - I had to pull them up on it. It's people like that who are crippling the sport slowly.

And it's not a dig at the F1Fanatic owner. You take on as many as you possibly can. But i've checked out the average 'Rate the Race' results over the past year or two, and F1F's is always a higher average than here, which either tells you that:

a) There's more happy casuals on F1F now
or
b) We're a pessimistic bunch!

But in all seriousness, it's not right, is it?

I asked the dude who voted 9/10 (didn't vote it 10/10 because of Raikkonen's retirement, btw) "what on earth did you vote some of the previous races? 20/10?".

I don't mean to come across like a bitter *****, but do you sometimes get the sense that you're fighting a losing battle?

I know that feeling whenever i read, Hamilton is the best, but he didnt win because Vettel cheated, infact i read on twitter earlier, vettel only beat Hamilton, because there was no saftey car

They don't seem to KNOW what we want, but they seem to be teaching a whole new generation of fan what they SHOULD want, and that scares me quite a bit.

Selby

:Sadtimes:

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Exactly.

More sanitised/safe passes, the better. And more 'overtaking' = a happy crowd!

Selby

I think that you are completely correct Selby that the DRS do provide safer sanitized passing.

Your argument does however neglect the fact that because of the turbulence off the back of the leading car it is impossible for any following car to overtake in the corners due to lack of downforce and grip compared to a car in clean undisturbed air.

Quite frankly until you get rid of most of the aero DRS is the only solution to the parades of the past!

Remember Montoya saying something to the effect of I got over taker of the year for two passes!

If the DRS confers such an advantage then the overtaken car should simply blow past the leader in the next DRS zone!

DRS is artificial yes, but a necessary evil as an anti-wake turbulence device!

Parades are just horrible, and the only alternative to DRS with these cars.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I've been a member of F1Fanatic for a long time, and it used to be a place for die-hards. Always had really intelligent discussion.

Over the past year or so, it's definitely inherited a lot of casual fans, and many rate the races extremely high and are very happy with 'all the overtakes!'.

For instance, 2 people there today voted Spa a whopping 9/10. I couldn't help myself - I had to pull them up on it. It's people like that who are crippling the sport slowly.

And it's not a dig at the F1Fanatic owner. You take on as many as you possibly can. But i've checked out the average 'Rate the Race' results over the past year or two, and F1F's is always a higher average than here, which either tells you that:

a) There's more happy casuals on F1F now
or
b) We're a pessimistic bunch!

But in all seriousness, it's not right, is it?

I asked the dude who voted 9/10 (didn't vote it 10/10 because of Raikkonen's retirement, btw) "what on earth did you vote some of the previous races? 20/10?".

I don't mean to come across like a bitter *****, but do you sometimes get the sense that you're fighting a losing battle?

They don't seem to KNOW what we want, but they seem to be teaching a whole new generation of fan what they SHOULD want, and that scares me quite a bit.

Selby

Good points Dan and yes, I would sadly have to agree. I don't think its deliberate 'overt' manipulation but it very well may be a 'political policy' for the sake of safety.

Your point about training customers to accept a sanitised version of F1 reminds me of the Jim Carrey movie "The Truman Show".
What I saw at Spa on Sunday is NOT F1 as I know it.....

[NaBUru38]

"these DRS passes are much safer"

Enough! (Batman slaps Robin)

Today I saw the IndyCar race at Sonoma, which has really short straights. They were passing each other at several places. Fix the car properly, not with gimmicks that prevent decent overtakes.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

"these DRS passes are much safer"

Enough! (Batman slaps Robin)

Today I saw the IndyCar race at Sonoma, which has really short straights. They were passing each other at several places. Fix the car properly, not with gimmicks that prevent decent overtakes.

Indy car uses spec chassis so they should be able to design them so they can run in close company with no chassis competition.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think that you are completely correct Selby that the DRS do provide safer sanitized passing.

Your argument does however neglect the fact that because of the turbulence off the back of the leading car it is impossible for any following car to overtake in the corners due to lack of downforce and grip compared to a car in clean undisturbed air.

Quite frankly until you get rid of most of the aero DRS is the only solution to the parades of the past!

Remember Montoya saying something to the effect of I got over taker of the year for two passes!

If the DRS confers such an advantage then the overtaken car should simply blow past the leader in the next DRS zone!

DRS is artificial yes, but a necessary evil as an anti-wake turbulence device!

Parades are just horrible, and the only alternative to DRS with these cars.

Could they at least not just shorten the DRS zones then?

I get it. Some tracks, you need SOME thing. But making them bigger and more common is not the answer. It's such a short cut at the expense of real racing, and that's what worries me, because it seems quite deliberate to me.

I'd take:
*Shorter DRS zones where massive ones aren't necessary (China, Spa, India spring the mind - they're just too damn long! If you're within 1 second, you're through. Simple as that. No skill in that whatsoever)

*Lessened DRS effect. ie. making it so the wing isn't allowed to open quite so much, thus reducing the top speed.

Selby

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Could they at least not just shorten the DRS zones then?

I get it. Some tracks, you need SOME thing. But making them bigger and more common is not the answer. It's such a short cut at the expense of real racing, and that's what worries me, because it seems quite deliberate to me.

I'd take:
*Shorter DRS zones where massive ones aren't necessary (China, Spa, India spring the mind - they're just too damn long! If you're within 1 second, you're through. Simple as that. No skill in that whatsoever)

*Lessened DRS effect. ie. making it so the wing isn't allowed to open quite so much, thus reducing the top speed.

Selby

I could not agree more.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Could they at least not just shorten the DRS zones then?

I get it. Some tracks, you need SOME thing. But making them bigger and more common is not the answer. It's such a short cut at the expense of real racing, and that's what worries me, because it seems quite deliberate to me.

I'd take:
*Shorter DRS zones where massive ones aren't necessary (China, Spa, India spring the mind - they're just too damn long! If you're within 1 second, you're through. Simple as that. No skill in that whatsoever)

*Lessened DRS effect. ie. making it so the wing isn't allowed to open quite so much, thus reducing the top speed.

Selby

After the race though Dan, Lewis said that he could not get near the Ferrari even with DRS because it was just too quick.
Vettel's pass of Lewis was also completed without DRS, he hung back off the start so he could draft / slipstream him going onto the straight, and boy did it work!

[ECW Dan Selby]

But isn't this to do with the comprimise they have to make in the set-up, in regards to DRS? ie. gear ratios

Selby

[chillibowl]

i think its unfair to blame new viewers and casual fans for changes to the sport that were introduced to stop the processions which bothered the 'traditionalist' and/or long time viewers.

if the FOM or FIA cared more about new viewers/casual fans then they would have kept the status quo of 2000-2004 who primarily tuned in because they were interested in watching the domination shown by one of the worlds greatest and most successful sportsman of the time and as a result they became Ferrari fans. i picked this period because i do think this is also the period that F1 grew the most in terms of total audience and new viewers.

so instead of giving the new viewers what they tuned in for, the FIA and FOM chose instead to end testing, add DRS, adding more run off, and constantly tweaking the quali and tire formats. all this was done to add parity among the teams and make it more exciting overall by adding more overtaking opportunities...in other words the chief complaints of the long time viewers.

i dont see why the new fans would ask for any of those things because they tuned in to watch one person kick everyone elses butts, hence why you would see them vote highly even when the race is a blowout.

while i agree with you that some of those changes were done for the wrong reasons and i dont like them either im just not sure i see the connection that its the fault of the new/casual viewer.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I'm not necessarily blaming the new viewers solely. That would be ridiculous. But seeing 9/10 for the latest GP just makes me very frustrated, and I worry that this kind of opinion will spread amongst the newer viewers, and the FIA think that they are doing the right thing.

Obviously, the problem lies with the rulemakers. They continue to ignore the fact that the DRS is far too strong on certain circuits, and yet they have the cheek to tell us that they review them yearly given the data they picked up in previous years. That's utter bull, imo.

Selby

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I'm not necessarily blaming the new viewers solely. That would be ridiculous.

of course its never an either or thing anyways. lots of factors contributed to get us to this spot and really lots of ways to see this problem which i think you quite rightly point out here.

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Obviously, the problem lies with the rulemakers. They continue to ignore the fact that the DRS is far too strong on certain circuits, and yet they have the cheek to tell us that they review them yearly given the data they picked up in previous years. That's utter bull, imo.

Selby

generally speaking i do agree with your sentiment here. i think F1 fans are and the sport attracts fans who are a very technical and literate group...we thrive on detailed explanations rather then the simplified ones we tend to get from FOM and FIA and not getting that is frustrating.

anyways didnt mean to try to pigeon hole your idea down to just one aspect as it was clear to me that you were making a more complex point then the small part i sort of got caught up on.

[Paradise City]

Gangly, gigantic biplane wings on the front of these cars creating what looks like a frowning, gaping yawn. These F1 cars are just horrible and ugly and what we are to believe are unraceable in their original format so much so they need to install penelope pitstop gimmicks so they can pass. I would've thought from intuition that the cars sailing past each other would've been more dangerous but I won't push that particular point.