The Australian Stepping Stone

Oaksnaf · 25 Apr 2006, 10:12 (Ref:1594496)

V8 Supercars claim a ridiculous amount of attention from the Australian media draining any other category of coverage. Not only is it draining other categories, but now a large percentage of karters would rather race V8 Supercars than go overseas, and the same with Formula Ford drivers.

In four wheel motorsport there are only a select few racing overseas that I can mention off the top of my head:

Sam Abey (Formula BMW Asia)
James Davidson (Toyota Atlantic)
Will Power (Champ Cars)
Marcus Ambrose (NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series)
Michael Patrizi (Formula BMW UK)
Mark Webber (Formula One)
Karl Reindler (British F3)
Barton Mawer (Toyota Atlantic)
David Brabham (American Le Mans - GT Championship)
Ryan Briscoe (Roaming overseas - ultimately coming to V8s)
Chris Atkinson (WRC)

Now really that is a pitiful amount of Aussies racing overseas. But it gets worse, Formula 3 (ex?) driver Chris Alajajian has now progressed into the Development Series with Protechnica this year. But before this had eventuated Chris had received an offer from a German F3 team but was unable to come up with the funding. Why can’t Australian Motorsport Corperations get behind Aussies.

Half of the Formula Ford drivers in recent years have just ended up in V8 Supercars or relevant sedan series, Nick Parker, Jack Perkins, Will Davison, Jamie Whincup, Jason Bargwanna, Garth Tander, Todd Kelly, Marcus Ambrose, Greg Ritter, Adam Macrow, Phillip Scifleet, Luke Youlden, Rodney Forbes, Steve Owen, Owen Kelly, David Reynolds, Alex Davison, Marcus Marshall, Tomaz Mezera, Russel Ingall, Cameron McConville, Craig Lowndes, Steven Richards, Jason Bright, David Besnard, Mark Larkham, Rick Kelly, Andrew Jones, Mark Winterbottom, Ben Eggleston, Shane Price etc etc etc

How many have attempted to go overseas? Hardly enough to mention. And then people - V8 reporters - have the nerve to say "It would be great to see other Aussies racing in Formula One" when all they can think about is seeing them in V8's and a perfect example is ex-Jaguar test driver James Courtney and ex-Toyota test driver Ryan Briscoe. And those that do race overseas get jack all coverage anyway.

And to add to this, already there are Formula Ford drivers who have signed long term contracts with a certain manufactor, same with some in Aussie Racing Cars.

My overall point:

Is V8 Supercars the best category that youngsters can set themselves to race in?

Does V8 Supercars drain Australian motorsport $$ wise, as finding sponsorship for the fastest open wheeler category is extremely hard. Basically if you are not associated with V8's they dont want to know you.

Is it too much of a comfort zone to explore going overseas, just settling for V8 Supercars as its in Australia. And do Australians get the necessary support when overseas? Craig Lowndes certainly didn't.

And does V8 Supercars really have the best of the best racing in the series, if the likes of David Thexton can race in the main game, then anyone can.

Personally im worried that Australia will not see any of our drivers (not riders - as that is a completely different story) racing in premier classes overseas, except for the odd few.

If Formula Ford isn't the stepping stone to overseas, then what exactly is? Is there a stepping stone for overseas at all..... or are V8 Supercars the ends all means all.

Just something that ive felt like having a rant about for a while now.

kmsport · 25 Apr 2006, 11:17 (Ref:1594532)

Is V8 Supercars the best category that youngsters can set themselves to race in?
No
Does V8 Supercars drain Australian motorsport $$ wise,
Yes, and it's now draining itself
And does V8 Supercars really have the best of the best racing in the series, if the likes of David Thexton can race in the main game, then anyone can.No, but I shouldnt driver bash...but I think Custards a joke!
If Formula Ford isn't the stepping stone to overseas, then what exactly is? Is there a stepping stone for overseas at all..... or are V8 Supercars the ends all means all.It would appear so..

Robert Ryan · 25 Apr 2006, 11:42 (Ref:1594556)

Quote:

How many have attempted to go overseas

Let us get a reality check here first. Do we as Aussie fans live overseas? Answer No. Our priority is racing here.
What is one of the recurring theme on this message board?: building up the series that we already have. From the current topics: CAMS series; AMRS; ARC;F4000; F3:Saloon Cars etc.
Most of the people who went O/S in the past came from the openwheeler ranks:Formula Ford and F4000, just recently F3 .
All Three categories have been attacked as being inadequate. Maybe you can suggest how to overcome THEIR deficiencies?

Oaksnaf · 25 Apr 2006, 11:50 (Ref:1594569)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Let us get a reality check here first. Do we as Aussie fans live overseas? Answer No.
What is one of the recurring theme on this message board: building up other series that we have, from the current topics: CAMS series; AMRS; ARC;F4000; F3:Saloon Cars etc.
Most of the people who went O/S in the past came from the openwheeler ranks:Formula Ford and F4000, just recently F3 .
All Three categories have been attacked as being inadequate. Maybe you can suggest how to overcome THEIR deficiencies?

Firstly I would like to see you name drivers from the Formula 3 series that have gone overseas. There arn't a great deal of them, Karl and Barton spring to mind.

Secondly, do we need to keep drivers in the series year after year after year so they can keep the numbers up? I dont believe thats what it is about, we should be able to recycle drivers at least every 2-3 years. Formula Ford is one category that can bring in vast amount of drivers, aswell as having vast amounts of drivers leaving. If everyone was to stay in Formula Ford then that would lead to many problems.

What other categories have problems with is attracting new comers to the series, and that can be partly due to the one way traffic towards V8 Supercars from the young guns of today.

And if Aus drivers dont want to be anywhere else except on the road to V8's then a huge amount of categories are likely to suffer as a result, leaving them with the "usual" group of competitors.

Robert Ryan · 25 Apr 2006, 12:03 (Ref:1594586)

Quote:

Formula Ford is one category that can bring in vast amount of drivers, aswell as having vast amounts of drivers leaving.

Yes I agree with your sentiment, the only problem is the prohibitive cost of running the series.

Quote:

Firstly I would like to see you name drivers from the Formula 3 series that have gone overseas. There arn't a great deal of them, Karl and Barton spring to mind.

This catergory suffers from the triple whammy of having a small turf war with F4000, being relatively young and expensive.

Quote:

What other categories have problems with is attracting new comers to the series, and that can be partly due to the one way traffic towards V8 Supercars from the young guns of today.

Logically that makes sense, it is the 800lb Gorilla of local racing.

sizzle · 25 Apr 2006, 15:00 (Ref:1594702)

If you bring up a generation to believe that everything should be handed to them then how can you expect them to do the hard yards ala Alan Jones, Mark webber etc.

The will to do it must be within.

mountainstar · 25 Apr 2006, 15:38 (Ref:1594721)

Drivers end up in V8's and stay in Australia for much the same reason almost nobody in the USA goes to Europe or japan. They've got it too good where they are at.

Falcadore · 25 Apr 2006, 20:56 (Ref:1594915)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

Half of the Formula Ford drivers in recent years have just ended up in V8 Supercars or relevant sedan series, Nick Parker, Jack Perkins, Will Davison, Jamie Whincup, Jason Bargwanna, Garth Tander, Todd Kelly, Marcus Ambrose, Greg Ritter, Adam Macrow, Phillip Scifleet, Luke Youlden, Rodney Forbes, Steve Owen, Owen Kelly, David Reynolds, Alex Davison, Marcus Marshall, Tomaz Mezera, Russel Ingall, Cameron McConville, Craig Lowndes, Steven Richards, Jason Bright, David Besnard, Mark Larkham, Rick Kelly, Andrew Jones, Mark Winterbottom, Ben Eggleston, Shane Price etc etc etc

How many have attempted to go overseas?

Several of thatlist never intended to race overseas and always had V8Supercar as a target - but to rate individually...

Will Davison (British Formula Renault, British Formula 3)
Marucs Ambrose (British & European Formula Ford, French Formula 3)
Phillip Scifleet (British Formula 3)
Alex Davison (German Carrera Cup, Porsche Supercup, some brief American Le Mans Series)
Marcus Marshall (British Formula 3, Champ Car World Series)
Tomas Mezera (spent years racing and teaching racing at various levels in the UK)
Russell Ingall (German and Japanese Formula 3, British Formula Ford)
Craig Lowndes (European Formula 3000 Championship)
Steven Richards (British Touring Car Championship)
Jason Bright (US Formula Ford 2000, Indy Lights, Champ Car World Series)
David Besnard (he started overseas like Courntey- international kart racer, US Formula Ford 2000, US Formula Atlantic, some American Le Mans Series)

So that's a fair portion of the list.

Didn't Eggleston come out of Sports Sedans rather than Formula Ford?

stmookeyj033 · 25 Apr 2006, 22:42 (Ref:1594985)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Marucs Ambrose

WHO?????

Falcadore · 26 Apr 2006, 02:17 (Ref:1595064)

stmookey: well this forum won't let you correct typos outside of the ten minute mark...

storyline · 26 Apr 2006, 02:42 (Ref:1595074)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

James Davidson (Toyota Atlantic)

Was this meant to be James DAVISON (Jon Davison's son?) I understood he was trying to get into (maybe already has) Formula BMW in the US/Asia?

cavvy · 26 Apr 2006, 02:49 (Ref:1595076)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Several of thatlist never intended to race overseas and always had V8Supercar as a target - but to rate individually...

Will Davison (British Formula Renault, British Formula 3)
Marucs Ambrose (British & European Formula Ford, French Formula 3)
Phillip Scifleet (British Formula 3)
Alex Davison (German Carrera Cup, Porsche Supercup, some brief American Le Mans Series)
Marcus Marshall (British Formula 3, Champ Car World Series)
Tomas Mezera (spent years racing and teaching racing at various levels in the UK)
Russell Ingall (German and Japanese Formula 3, British Formula Ford)
Craig Lowndes (European Formula 3000 Championship)
Steven Richards (British Touring Car Championship)
Jason Bright (US Formula Ford 2000, Indy Lights, Champ Car World Series)
David Besnard (he started overseas like Courntey- international kart racer, US Formula Ford 2000, US Formula Atlantic, some American Le Mans Series)

So that's a fair portion of the list.

Didn't Eggleston come out of Sports Sedans rather than Formula Ford?

You seem to be saying these guys went overseas en route to their target of V8 Supercars - take Marcus Ambrose as an example, thats nonsense ...

mtpanorama · 26 Apr 2006, 02:56 (Ref:1595080)

Ben Eggleston raced karts and then FF

storyline · 26 Apr 2006, 03:36 (Ref:1595094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavvy

You seem to be saying these guys went overseas en route to their target of V8 Supercars - take Marcus Ambrose as an example, thats nonsense ...

Similarly Craig Lowndes.

elephino · 26 Apr 2006, 03:55 (Ref:1595102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by storyline

Similarly Craig Lowndes.

You've missed the word "several" not all.

For instance, V8 Supercars didn't exist in Mezera's open wheel time.

storyline · 26 Apr 2006, 04:10 (Ref:1595104)

(cough) AVESCO seemed to think they did!

racer69 · 26 Apr 2006, 07:26 (Ref:1595169)

A lack of Australians overseas in nothing new, the same complaints have been around for donkey's years.

Australian companies are rarely willing to back drivers going OS, even the 'Mark Webber' factor hasn't done much.

You can head overseas of your own accord, chase sponsorship over there and so on, but alot of drivers can't be bothered as there are paid rides to aim for in V8s......

As i posted in another thread, i can see the day when Australian Motorsport at a national level will consist of one package touring the country (and the one ladder for drivers) consisting of Aussie Racers, Carrera Cup, Biante Series, Development Series and the V8Supercar Series.......

Robert Ryan · 26 Apr 2006, 07:42 (Ref:1595184)

About time the others like Aus Gt:, Australian Performamce Car(new Website and Sponsor) and the V8Utes got together, with Biante, ARC, F3 too form a good 2nd tier. Depending on how successful, then the Development series and the Carerra Cup

Oaksnaf · 26 Apr 2006, 08:05 (Ref:1595200)

Some series now are taking things into their own hands despite still being under the CAMS banner, it just goes to show that the series cant get the decisions that the board bring to CAMS acted upon in an adequate time frame.

storyline · 26 Apr 2006, 08:20 (Ref:1595214)

racer69 - without defending Australian Companies, the number of companies that would benefit from sponsoring a driver going overseas is going to be small. Sure, they may get some 'rub off' locally because they sponsored a 'local boy/girl trying to make good', but exposure overseas generally won;t do them any good.

Take Foster's - after (how many years is it now?) they are pulling out of F1 sponsorship - partly because they are selling out in the UK but they admit the exposure they wanted was reached and they can't get anything else out of it.

There aren't many 'Foster'-like companies around that I can think of that would benefit.

BHP-Billeton (sp?) is one, AWB another?

Sequel · 26 Apr 2006, 09:24 (Ref:1595257)

Re: F3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

This catergory suffers from the triple whammy of having a small turf war with F4000, being relatively young and expensive.

Turf war - yes, but its almost over. Relatively young - yes (in this country atleast, older than me in europe), and only time will fix that.

Expensive - Not at all. Perseived as expensive - yes. People keep talking about Australian F3 being expensive without getting the figues. It is a case of the cars looking expspensive therefore they must be expensive to race. I think you will find that a season in Aussie F3 with one of the top teams will cost you about the same as a season in FFord with the top teams, and for that matter, if you speak to some of the dads that have had to pay for a few years in karts at the top end, I think you will find that F3 is quite reasonably priced.

The problem is alot of kids want to drive V8's. And after a few years in karts and FFord, they have either run out of money (as THEY ARE expensive formulas), or still have a half a mill in their wallet and so buy a supercar drive (speed not really a factor).

For those that dont want to drive V8's, they do the karts and FF, then do a year in Aussie F3, and then find out that if they want to follow their dream, they are going to have to find $1M (no matter how fast you are), and put in allot of hard work (ie Bart Mawer, Will Power, Mark Webber). For those that dont like hard work/dont have the dedication/dont have the drive/cant find $1M, they opt for CCup/development so that they still get to drive a racing car.

Peter Nightingale · 26 Apr 2006, 10:41 (Ref:1595315)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmsport

Is V8 Supercars the best category that youngsters can set themselves to race in?
No
Does V8 Supercars drain Australian motorsport $$ wise,
Yes, and it's now draining itself
And does V8 Supercars really have the best of the best racing in the series, if the likes of David Thexton can race in the main game, then anyone can.No, but I shouldnt driver bash...but I think Custards a joke!
If Formula Ford isn't the stepping stone to overseas, then what exactly is? Is there a stepping stone for overseas at all..... or are V8 Supercars the ends all means all.It would appear so..

Please take a BOW..... Cheers P N...

peckstar · 27 Apr 2006, 10:54 (Ref:1596135)

times have changed a bit, since the old days though, i remeber when Brighty went to do indy lights in 2000. he was looking for a budget of around 1 to 1.5 million dollars. thats is big bickies. He lived in a winnebago for a year and was away from family and friends for that time.

He came home in serious debt and was fortunate enough to land a well paying job.

but really 1.5 mill is lots of cash would get you some nice rides here in australia, dont have to leave home, dont have to say goodby to family and friends

once upon a time sponsorship was not important, just being able to drive and knowing how to build/prepare cars was important. but money in the sport has meant people spend more to get the best bits the latest hi tech cars etc and that has meant motoorsport costs more than ever before

storyline · 27 Apr 2006, 11:17 (Ref:1596151)

Lowndes was almost exactly the same - in Europe with a team he didn't really know, virtually camping while he was over there.

At least, with Bright and Lowndes - they DID have talent to be able to pick up the pieces when they came back and were lucky enough to get drives straight away.

Falcadore · 27 Apr 2006, 14:25 (Ref:1596276)

Quote:

Originally Posted by storyline

racer69 - without defending Australian Companies, the number of companies that would benefit from sponsoring a driver going overseas is going to be small. Sure, they may get some 'rub off' locally because they sponsored a 'local boy/girl trying to make good', but exposure overseas generally won;t do them any good.

Take Foster's - after (how many years is it now?) they are pulling out of F1 sponsorship - partly because they are selling out in the UK but they admit the exposure they wanted was reached and they can't get anything else out of it.

There aren't many 'Foster'-like companies around that I can think of that would benefit.

BHP-Billeton (sp?) is one, AWB another?

Because when I need a piece of universal beam from the local hardware store I always remember to ask if its the seel that supports Australian motorsport!

And when I'm atthe servo in down town Bagdad at 2 in the morning, I always ask if this bread was baked from real AWB oil contra deals.

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